I feel like a separate self

[Ookiemonster]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand this as the seeing that there is no seperate self apart from anything else.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm wanting to be liberated from suffering. Ever since I remember I've been absolutely miserable. Conceptually I realize that I don't have a self there to suffer, but I feel alive and I still suffer. I was hoping that we could break through the first 3 fetters together. That's the main reason. Buts I've also been interested in the nature of reality since a child and loved physics and math. However those explorations were never embodied, and didn't feel real like this does. So I'm interested in doing physics from the inside.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I've been on this path for about 3 years doing mainly self inquiry, but I'm stuck and I haven't had a shift. Partially I think I just haven't had the concentration to sit there and only be concerned with the nature of self as life is distracting. However, I'm on my first retreat, and it feels like this is what I needed, some space and time to inquire into the nature of the self. I was referred to where by another retreat member who said she's been working on the fetters and said that the members here have a great success rate. I've started reading gateless gate crashers. Id love a similar conversation that would directly take me to awakening. I'm pretty desperate!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started life as a strict Muslim, prayed a lot, then because a strict atheist with a yearning for the truth, I read physics and philosophy, that felt more spiritual but not embodied.
Through a podcast I found Angello dillulo, through I listen to his no duality videos everyday and practice self enquiry and do nothing meditation. I'm currently on my first meditation retreat with him.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Lubo]

Hi dear,
Welcome to the forum.
My name is Lubo and I can guide you here, if you are OK?
What name you prefer to call you?

I'm pretty desperate!

I hear you. I am holding you. You are not alone anymore.

I'm wanting to be liberated from suffering. Ever since I remember I've been absolutely miserable.

Beautiful.
Describe suffering using this tree questions:
Notice what is that wich you call mine?
What is that wich is not the problem of the universe but yours private?
What is that wich is hard to let go?

I started life as a strict Muslim, prayed a lot, then because a strict atheist with a yearning for the truth

This is amassing.
Yes, you can trust ONLY yourself.
Everything else is a concept , description of someone else experience.
But you are not interested by that. You want to taste the freedom directly, no need someone's ideas, including Angelo, Lubo or any others.
You deserve your freedom. Never mind what they present them self.

Much love to you,
lubo

[Ookiemonster]

Hello Lubo, yes please! Thank you for taking me under your wing. You can call me Row, short for Rowshan.

I hear you. I am holding you. You are not alone anymore.

Thank you again.

I'll work on these questions and get back to you.

[Ookiemonster]

Describe suffering using this tree questions:
Notice what is that wich you call mine?

Conceptually I dont call anything mine. But the thoughts they say this body is mine, what will happen to me and my life and my body. I consider, my home , my car, my arms all mine. They feel like mine but at the same time if I look closely, the heart beat is the same as the chirping of the birds, are the same "mineness" at the same time they feel apart from me, as apart as the car my home and my arm. If that makes sense. It's like I'm back here observing all this.

What is that wich is not the problem of the universe but yours private?

I guess the problems of the universe and my problems are all the same. However my private thoughts appear much more important to "me." recurrent thoughts about my past, my future, my health, my relationship, things I own.

What is that wich is hard to let go?

Hard to let go of relationships, my health, my future and my relationships.

[Lubo]

Hey, hi dear Row,
Nice to read your answers.

So , notice this:
my body, my car, my arms, my thoughts, my problems, my relationship, ...
we are looking that you are not this imagined owner, such owner doesn't exist and never was.
Do you want to find the same?

If Yes:
The easiest and instant way is to transcendent thoughts.
What does mean:
Notice the clouds on the sky (literally, this is an exercise)
Let's thoughts label on of them with "my cloud" - stay with that, feel this cloud really close, intimate - this is an "experience of owning" and no to transcendent it just notice Are you a cloud? :)
Is it easy?
If Yes, do it the same with thoughts - no need to identify with clouds or thoughts.
Notice the thoughts and then find:
Are you a thought?

this is the king's way, it is not easy because we are so familiar with them but when you look closely ... :)
The same with the emotions.

Do it even for 1 sek and write what is the experience?

Much love,
Lubo

[Ookiemonster]

Do you want to find the same?

Yes I do

Let's thoughts label on of them with "my cloud" - stay with that, feel this cloud really close, intimate - this is an "experience of owning" and no to transcendent it just notice Are you a cloud? :)
Is it easy?
If Yes, do it the same with thoughts - no need to identify with clouds or thoughts.
Notice the thoughts and then find:
Are you a thought?

Just to see if I have this correct:
So with a cloud, I label it my cloud, then experience the owning, then inquire "am I a cloud"
then with thoughts notice a thought and inquire am I that thought?

[Ookiemonster]

This is what is happening in my experience:

"am I this cloud?"
- silence
- oh yeah it does feel like a part of me
"am I this computer screen?"
- it also feels like a part of me
- Am I just tricking myself to believing that ?
I recongnise that as a thought
"am I a thought?"
silence
"be patient"
that's a thought
"am I a thought?"

[Lubo]

Nice :)
What you notice:
Are you a cloud?
Are you the thought "am I a thought?"
are you the silence?

[Ookiemonster]

I'm aware of all these things, but if I'm aware of it I can't be it. So no.

[Ookiemonster]

I'm aware of all these things, but if I'm aware of it I can't be it. So no.

But that is also a thought

I can't hear the silence.

[Lubo]

I'm aware of all these things, but if I'm aware of it I can't be it. So no.

Notice the subtle pattern "thoughts to explain what is going on here" but not this to be simply seen?

Notice that there is still a story about a persona which is capable to DO something "to be aware, to live life..."

I'm aware of all these things, but if I'm aware of it I can't be it. So no.

But that is also a though

t

Exactly. Stay here.
Notice what is first: awarening that there are thoughts or thoughts that there is awareing of thoughts?

Do the thoughts can be aware or there is awareness that there is a thought? Don't expect thoughts to figured out the answer Simply notice!

I can't hear the silence.

But is easy to notice that there are no thoughts, check again and reply?

Love,
lubo

[Ookiemonster]

Notice the subtle pattern "thoughts to explain what is going on here" but not this to be simply seen?

Yes I can see

Notice what is first: awarening that there are thoughts or thoughts that there is awareing of thoughts?

Awaring that there are thoughts are first.
Thought's can't be aware. Thoughts just are.

But is easy to notice that there are no thoughts, check again and reply?

Yes, I'm there, within a few seconds discomfort arises, then other thoughts.

Thank you Lubo.

Love,

Row.

[Lubo]

Hi dear Row,

Awaring that there are thoughts are first.
Thought's can't be aware. Thoughts just are.

Beautiful. Notice thoughts are happening by themselves effortless? or they are artificial and are created by persona?
Nature of thoughts is divine right?
awareness of thoughts - is that artificial, personal awareness or this is also happen effortless? And awareness is the divine nature?

Finding that there is no persona is the personal event or it is happening in the Divinity?

Much love to you,
Lubo

[Ookiemonster]

Thoughts are happening by themselves, and are effortless. It would be nice if they required more effort as sometimes, I feel like I'd like less of them, recognising that that is a thought as well hahaha.

Awaring of thoughts also happens by it self. But sometimes it feels like I'm awaring those thoughts - also recognising that itself is a thought.

It all follows and makes sense that it isn't a personal event although the thoughts tell me that it is.


Apologies for the late reply!!

[Ookiemonster]

Thank you lubo!