They say I don't exist

[kirmizihap]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? It may mean that personality traits do not exist. For example, when someone says I am an unhappy person. another time can be a happy person. so the "unhappy or happy me" doesn't actually exist always.

What are you looking for at LU? I'm looking for someone who can guide me to a firm understanding of the "You don't exist" concept. Maybe this thing can give some inspiration as to whether life has a purpose or not, but it doesn't matter.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? It looks like your guidance will be more helpful than trying to figure this out on your own. Talking about it with experienced guides leads to understanding with less dialogue. I hope it ends with understanding

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? religious rituals, types of meditation, reading spiritual books constantly chat with spiritual people...

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Harry]

Hello,

My name is Harry and I would be happy to guide you. Thank you for reaching out and for sharing what you have so far.

The self we will be exploring here is the subject of experience… the thinker of thoughts located in the body, perceiving out through the senses, authoring and controlling actions and decisions, etc.

Here, we will explore this apparent personal existence directly and experientially, rather than conceptually.

Does this make sense? Is this kind of inquiry what you’re looking for?

A daily correspondence is best for this purpose, so please let me know if this is possible for you. Occasionally missing days if necessary is no problem, but if you could let me know in advance that would be great.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, have a look and let me know when you’ve read it please.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/


Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not ...” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Guidelines:

2. Please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry, as there is no one here to judge you.
3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. All other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading, etc. should be put aside for the remainder of this investigation. Effort and attention should be directed into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.


Unfortunately, technology can occasionally glitch and wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Saving a copy of what you have done will save time in the long run!


Thank you for what you have already shared about your expectations. To clarify this further for both of us, please answer the 4 following questions in your own words:

1. How will life change?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing?


Throughout this exploration, please answer all the questions that I have written in blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660


What name would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Best wishes,

Harry

[kirmizihap]

Does this make sense? Is this kind of inquiry what you’re looking for?

Yes. There are many different things to be told about a subject. Better to experience.

A daily correspondence is best for this purpose, so please let me know if this is possible for you.

Yes it is possible

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, have a look and let me know when you’ve read it please.

Read.

1. How will life change?

Life is constantly changing as unprecedented things come to light.

2. How will you change?

When I don't respond to life as I always do, I will have changed.

3. What will be different?

events and feelings may be different.

4. What is missing?

not behaving the way we actually want to behave.

What name would you like for me to call you?

Emre.

What time zone are you in, please?

GMT+3

[Harry]

Thanks for your answers, Emre.

When I don't respond to life as I always do, I will have changed.

Can you tell me about this ‘I’, the one who responds to life? If you can, please refer to experience.

not behaving the way we actually want to behave.

Would you elaborate on this please? Maybe with an example?

[kirmizihap]

Can you tell me about this ‘I’, the one who responds to life? If you can, please refer to experience.

Would you elaborate on this please? Maybe with an example?

[kirmizihap]

Can you tell me about this ‘I’, the one who responds to life? If you can, please refer to experience.

For example, here, you are controlling the progress of the conversation. Maybe you had a rough plan of questions to ask. There is also some improvisation, not in the form of a full script. like this, for example, before meeting with our friend, we think about the topics of the conversation we will have with him. In experience it is a feeling about controlling.

not behaving the way we actually want to behave.

Would you elaborate on this please? Maybe with an example?

For example, in an environment where people are arguing, not participating in the discussion and behaving cheerfully in a conciliatory and softening way... And Undesirable behavior is to stay out of the conversation indifferently or even worse to take part in the discussion that you regret later. How you want to behave is a personal matter. this way for me.

[Harry]

For example, here, you are controlling the progress of the conversation. Maybe you had a rough plan of questions to ask. There is also some improvisation, not in the form of a full script. like this, for example, before meeting with our friend, we think about the topics of the conversation we will have with him. In experience it is a feeling about controlling.

Let’s explore this ‘feeling of controlling’ directly with a short exercise…

Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice of number is made. Repeat as much as you like.

LOOK very closely to what is actually experienced, not just what thought says is experienced.

Did you know what number would be chosen before the thought appeared?

Did you select from many different thoughts before the thought of the chosen number arose, or did it just arise?

Keep watching the next few thoughts that appear after doing this exercise… what do you notice about how they appear? Do you selectively bring them into existence, or do they just appear?

See if you can keep looking in this way at your decisions, movements, actions, reactions, etc. throughout the day, noticing how they appear. Let me know what you find.

[kirmizihap]

Did you know what number would be chosen before the thought appeared?

No, it just occurred.

Did you select from many different thoughts before the thought of the chosen number arose, or did it just arise?

suddenly appeared

Do you selectively bring them into existence, or do they just appear?

They randomly appear.

See if you can keep looking in this way at your decisions, movements, actions, reactions, etc. throughout the day, noticing how they appear. Let me know what you find.

It first appears as a thought and then becomes reality if there is opportunity Or that movement seems unnecessary and then remains as a thought...

[Harry]

Hi Emre,

Sorry, I had tried to send this response a few days ago, but it didn’t come through for some reason.

Great answers.

Do these findings change your view of the ‘one who responds to life’, or the ‘self’?

[Harry]

Here’s another exercise…


Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

[kirmizihap]

Do these findings change your view of the ‘one who responds to life’, or the ‘self’?

things like itching, swallowing, yawning happen without planning ahead.

How is the movement controlled?

I did it according to the exercise, I did not plan in advance how many degrees I turned my hand, whether the fingers would be together or not.

Does a thought control it?

If there is a thought in our minds, do not do such exercises, it can.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

just a feeling about doing something or not. We can ignore that feeling and continue to do that job. I didn't see a remote. Strong beliefs or intense urges drive us, unless things like fatigue. such feelings appear in the chest sometimes

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

I didn't decide, it was like a reflex.

Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

my right hand with the phone on the ground. my left hand while the phone is in my right hand. I haven't seen anyone decide that.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

I think it's a feeling that makes it happen. There are people who quit smoking all of a sudden while smoking all the time. The feeling of disgust or coldness does this.

[Harry]

The previous questions and the rest I’ll be asking you will always be aimed at Direct Experience…


Coloured Socks

There is a big difference between knowing through thinking and seeing directly through experience.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:
If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference.
Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[kirmizihap]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

yes i guess, we're looking at what's going on right now. Shall I repeat the exercise?

[Harry]

yes i guess, we're looking at what's going on right now. Shall I repeat the exercise?

We’ll repeat it soon, but first, let’s clarify a bit more about what direct/actual experience is…


Direct Experience

Seeing (colour)
Feeling (sensation)
Hearing
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (thoughts themselves, not their content, or the things they’re ABOUT).

To get familiar with this, I would like you to make lists of your direct experiences as they occur, as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.


So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Important: the goal is not to list an experience for each category of DE, but to list your direct experiences in whatever order they occur. There may or may not be examples of each category.

Please send several of these lists.

[kirmizihap]

While i am writing this reply; seeing a Phone screen is simply a image. Touching the screen and warmth of my hands is simply a sensation. Clock ticking is a sound. Thoughts on what to write about direct experience is a thoughts.

While i am walking, environment is a color. the smell of herbs is a smell. blowing wind is a sensation. rustling of leaves is a sound. thinking what should i do is a thought.

When driving a car, seeing the road and front panel of the car is a image. engine sound is a sound. texture of the steering wheel and gear is a feeling. the smell of car perfume is a smell. the thought of how long it is before I go to work is a thought.