What's it all about?

[LittleRobert]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no separate independent entity looking out of my eyes, trapped in this body. And that imagined entity isn't in control navigating its way around a life that it believes belongs to it.

What are you looking for at LU?
I've heard this message so many times. This might sound like a cliché, but I understand it intellectually but I don't feel it. I feel like an entity trapped in this body with free will and choice. When I hear the message that it's not true, I sense the truth but somehow I'm still seeking.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I feel pretty entrenched in my self. So I don't expect miracles. I don't expect liberation or anything so lofty. It would just be nice to have someone to talk with about this topic. I live in the rural US and the possibility that there may not be a "me" is not something that people here talk about.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I meditate maybe 3 times a week. I watch non-duality videos on You Tube. I do some self-inquiry, but I rarely can stick with it before I start thinking about me and my life. I'm 56 years old. I only heard this message about 6 years ago due to seeking online to alleviate my suffering. It started with Eckhart Tolle, then Mooji, then Adyashanti, then Paul Hedderman, then guys like Jim Newman and Tony Parsons. I still watch videos by the last 4. And now I feel stuck.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[jgdapoorva]

Hello LittleRobert,

I would love to dive into this exploration with you. Yup. There are very few people who talk of "no self". Let's see where this exploration leads us. 😊

You may accept me as your guide for this exploration. Kindly go through the following links. These will help you in letting you know how this exploration works.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2109

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660&p=12593#p12593

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Regards,
Apoorva

[LittleRobert]

Hi. So nice to hear from you. You can call me Robert.
Sorry if I was late in replying. I don't get to check my
email everyday. I am very happy to accept you as
a guide.

[jgdapoorva]

Hello Robert,

You are most welcome. It's all alrigt. Though I would recommend you to visit the forum and post daily. This is just a recommendation so that the flow continues.
Let's start. I hope you have gone through the links that I provided you earlier. If not, I strongly recommend that you do. Now the whole point of this exploration is to encourage you to look for the "I" and see in your experience what you find. It's not about believing, understanding, getting, or moving into some special state. It's all about looking. Looking/seeing and noticing are synonymous and will be used interchangeably throughout our dialogue. I will be asking questions and you will be answering them as honestly as you can. Right!!! The dialogue is not about my answers, but your answers.

Now, if I asked you to tell me what is behind your back right now, you could answer either by thinking and remembering or by turning your head around and actually looking back and describing what you see. That's how to look. Right.

Try this for yourself:

Take a little journey with me. Focus on what is, on direct, immediate, actual experience. Notice sensations in the hands and feet, light, and sounds; just listen, feel. Soften, allow, indulge. Let all of this be okay for a minute and a half. Whatever this is. Just sit with it, allowing all that comes up to be here. Notice sensations of being, vibration, aliveness. Are you “doing” being or is being “on” by default? Feel the sensations and see how the mind attempts to describe all that it focuses on. Notice the sensation in the left foot. There is a sensation, plus thoughts about it. Is there a feeler of sensation? Is there a feeler of feeling? Does feeling happen to another sensation? Stop reading for now and close your eyes for a bit. Now turn the attention to feeling the emotion that is most evident now. See how the mind names it. The action of labeling creates a sense of solidity and identity. But what is underneath the concepts? A raw sensation, a flow of perceiving. Be with the flow and watch what is happening. This is what is, in all its glorious simplicity.

Can you see a difference between looking/noticing and thinking? What is the main difference? Have a look now to verify for yourself. Write it all down.

While replying, kindly use the quote function to highlight the questions. My questions will be in blue. Here you will find a video with instructions.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Regards,
Apoorva

[LittleRobert]

You are right. There are just feelings and sensations. And then a labeling of the feelings which comes
in the form of language. Even that labeling language can be seen as just a happening up
until a point. But eventually a strongly painful emotion arises. Usually anger or depression or despair.
There is an apparent history behind the emotion. And eventually I feel like I am narrating a story of my life.
It actually feels as though I am pushing the words out from "my self" to the point that the inside of my
mouth moves to the words. So it feels like I am controlling this narration. At times it even feels as if either I am
or I have rehearsing/rehearsed the thoughts before they even form. I hope you don't
mind the use of pronouns. I have taken a lot of time to try and describe the experience of "my self" as honestly as I can.

[jgdapoorva]

Hello Richard,

You have beautifully described your experience.

And eventually I feel like I am narrating a story of my life. It actually feels as though I am pushing the words out from "my self" to the point that the inside of my mouth moves to the words. So it feels like I am controlling this narration. At times it even feels as if either I am or I have rehearsing/rehearsed the thoughts before they even form

What is this "I" that is narrating the story. Look for yourself. Is the narration being done by you or is it happening?Is there really a "you" that is rehearsing the thoughts or is all just happening by itself?

Regards

[LittleRobert]

I am forced to use a word that I cannot explain: Presence.
During the process of thinking it feels like there is a knowing presence in my head.
When the thoughts stop the knowing presence seems to settle into my chest or with painful
emotions into my stomach.
Maybe I can define presence as a knowing center in the body that creates a feeling of self-consciousness.
I can define self-consciousness as a feeling similar to when I've been in a play onstage and forget my lines.
I loose the character I'm pretending to be, and this flush of "I know I am here" comes over the body like a wave.
It can be reduced intellectually to just a feeling but it's too profound in both its discomfort and
its persistence to dismiss it as a belief. That's how it feels right now anyway.

[jgdapoorva]

Nice,

Is there really a "you" that is defining this experience? Is there really a "you" that is knowing all this? Is there really a "you" that is attempting to describe and explain all this? Look. Just look. Do you find a solid entity that is doing all of this? Or defining, knowing, and explaining happening by itself?

Regards

[jgdapoorva]

Hello Robert,

Just checking in. It's been two days since we talked. I hope you are alright :)


Regards

[LittleRobert]

I'm going to say the wrong thing, but I found a solid entity: This body.

[jgdapoorva]

Hey Robert,

Nice to hear from you.

I'm going to say the wrong thing, but I found a solid entity: This body.

Yes, the body is there. But what exactly is a body? Is it not just a label pointing to a shape, some sensations, a particular color..Isn't it? And the way you found the body, can you find a self like that. What is the shape of the self, what is its color, its texture? Look. What do you find?

Regards.

[LittleRobert]

I can equate the self to this body. Since I don't have sensations from other bodies, I can say that the self is a shape, some sensations, a particular color, etc. And I can add to that a controlling mechanism which drives this body to perform actions in its self-interest. Although admittedly it often fails at making the most beneficial choices. Maybe there is no me, but if there is a me, I would call it a body. Nothing is known unless the body is there.

[jgdapoorva]

Hey,

Maybe there is no me

Is it maybe or for sure?

but if there is a me, I would call it a body.

So, you are the body?

Regards

[LittleRobert]

I feel like a center. And the center would have to be the body, because
I only know the sense perception of this body and and nothing else.
Whether that center is real I'm not sure. It feels real.
I suffer its loses and am in constant defense of it.
So there isn't complete conviction yet that there is no me.

[LittleRobert]

I feel like a center. And the center would have to be the body, because
I only know the sense perception of this body and and nothing else.
Whether that center is real I'm not sure. It feels real.
I suffer its loses and am in constant defense of it.
So there isn't complete conviction yet that there is no me.