Hello again dear Dan,
Here is the work place for you and me.
Hope to see you soon :)
Jo
DKelso's thread
Re: DKelso's thread
Ok Jo, you saw my exchange (with Peter) with the demonstration of how "looking" can work. Take another look at that and give it a go please!
Re: DKelso's thread
Hi Dan!
Well I'll go and read the full thread to put me in the "experience" and come back to you later.
thanks
Jo
Well I'll go and read the full thread to put me in the "experience" and come back to you later.
thanks
Jo
Re: DKelso's thread
Very good!
Re: DKelso's thread
I printed the thread - thinking I had both pages, nope just page 1. Came back from restaurant with some notes and printed page 2.
I will try to keep the experience mine from now on, meaning I won't go and read others because as I'm new to this "awareness" quest, I see that I can be influenced, on the vocabulary for sure, by others - because the mind will try to accomodate by finding something to write.
As I have not experienced this or that, reading the look, look ... see the presence ... are still not "a sense of feeling" in me.
...
That said.
I had a dream in June 2011. Was waking up in the morning, when you have your eyes almost open... and I see myself driving, on an highway or something, wanting to BE where I had to be. Stop at some point, no indication that the road or bridge would be out but there is this large fast running river that "separate" the road. Cannot drive any longer. BUT I had to be on the other side (at that time I was living in Toronto, thinking maybe selling the house and move there. Very "driven by the idea but lost in the thoughts"). So I was looking at the river thinking that if I dive on the surface I would swim to the other side and I would be okay... but at the same time I knew, I had the stong feeling that if I did, I MIGHT also die.
I did plunge but .. I could not stay on the surface, my body was pulled down the water very fast. I could feel (in the bed) the water on my body. I was not able to get my arms straight and move up. I knew after few seconds I would die. I thought.. hope my wallet stayed in the car and they find the paper with my friends addresses on it and that they would know I didn't kill myself. Few seconds later, understanding it was the end, I turn my head and suddenly I was not the body anymore but a very loving non-judging PRESENCE (an image.. ME the body would look at a fish tank and watch the fish). No form, just like I would have been in my head watching the fish. It was an outside view of the body - with still live in it - drawing down. The presence said " thank you Johanne for this life" with so much love and I woke up.
...
Few weeks ago, a voice - again in the morning almost woke up - was saying on and on, non stop (in my opinion for hours) "Bring your Consciousness to ONENESS". Non stop ! I woke up and I heard that for almost all morning... .the voice was the same than the dream, but I didn't see or felt anyone. Just a voice.
...
The mind has no clue Where I am, What I am. It will try to figure it out if I ask again and again. So I understand that by looking it is not an muscular thing but HOW do I do it? Open eyes? Closed eyes? Meditation state? not sure...
...
Who's watching (computer, people..) no clue. // Who washes the body / hair earlier? no clue. // Who was driving earlier? no clue but had the images of the Truman Show and WALL-E (when they are in the spaceship). Very automatic.
...
I've been a smiling-bubbly person all my life (some call that a "charmer" hmm...) . Kept saying that I am sure my natural state is to be happy - having no clue about the "Awareness states". Earlier and few times in the past weeks, I felt that JOY and HAPPINESS big time. It was not like in the movie "When Harry met Sally" but when the Masters say that some stages are very orgasmic, .. well... yep. The feelings were very deep, nothing to do with a joy from the world. No form, no dimension. Just WAS. (still is)
And I heard "Welcome Home" and I said where are you? I felt it behind my head... and it says "We've always been there" . But it was so... low profile, I'm not sure what it was or if it happened or wished it happened.
But the Joy, the Happiness were (still!) very real and profound. It's not from anything or anyone. It just IS. That I'm sure and I don't know where / What it looks like (if it's your next question :) ). I just feel them as part of who I really am. A No Endless Feeling of LOVE.
Again, been a smiling person. Lately, when I do - most of the time - I see the LOVE in others. I feel it. Not the human one, something much more deep. Not a judgmental or conditional one. Just LOVE with no description. And few told me that when that smile shows up, all my face glows and my eyes are very "loving".
...
I was following a bus who had an add on it saying : Regardez le monde sous un autre oeil. (well I speak French, what did you expect?)
...
When I was looking earlier in the "False image of me" (ref. other thread), few things came up. Don't know if it's what I'm supposed to look at but.. here it is:
. Emptiness (I saw very clearly 2 years ago that I was in an empty white-waiting-room. No window, no door. I feel I'm out of it with this process I started few months ago but still that emptiness feeling that is just waiting to be filled by the kind of feeling I felt earlier)
.No form
.Joy/Happiness ... No thoughts!
.Jo the body/mind/ego (thoughts-emotions/feelings). I'm writing but the sense of consciousness is not.
.Heart beat going on, giving the sensation I'm alive. But it stops right there, no more than "I'm alive because my heart is beating". No "me" in that sense.
...
Who is looking? 180 degrees.
No clue! but the presence I saw 9 months ago... didn't see it back. When I say see, I didn't see it I was it. and nothing was around.
LOTS of Love and Compassion. No end.
...
No control on thoughts.. because if I had, I would choose differently. I seem to fonction on automatic (crap!) with this body/mind/ego with no control whatsoever with their choices. My Chinese Medicine teacher was always saying " It is what it is"!. Well, I can resume it by that.
...
I have been reading posts, read few books lately to awake the amnesia part of me to go back to the BEINGNESS state. To remember what it was, where it was.. to give me the feelings inside to make me see what where who.
I have this URGE to do this. There is nothing else but that. The Joy and Happiness were made from that - feeling the ONENESS was happy to see me on the right path (kind of).
Well.. yes long but it's the first one so it is excusable :)
sorry anyway.
Will go back to look at I have no clue what but something will show up - maybe a rabbit today tho as it's EASTER.
Thanks for reading ALL the post :)
Jo
I will try to keep the experience mine from now on, meaning I won't go and read others because as I'm new to this "awareness" quest, I see that I can be influenced, on the vocabulary for sure, by others - because the mind will try to accomodate by finding something to write.
As I have not experienced this or that, reading the look, look ... see the presence ... are still not "a sense of feeling" in me.
...
That said.
I had a dream in June 2011. Was waking up in the morning, when you have your eyes almost open... and I see myself driving, on an highway or something, wanting to BE where I had to be. Stop at some point, no indication that the road or bridge would be out but there is this large fast running river that "separate" the road. Cannot drive any longer. BUT I had to be on the other side (at that time I was living in Toronto, thinking maybe selling the house and move there. Very "driven by the idea but lost in the thoughts"). So I was looking at the river thinking that if I dive on the surface I would swim to the other side and I would be okay... but at the same time I knew, I had the stong feeling that if I did, I MIGHT also die.
I did plunge but .. I could not stay on the surface, my body was pulled down the water very fast. I could feel (in the bed) the water on my body. I was not able to get my arms straight and move up. I knew after few seconds I would die. I thought.. hope my wallet stayed in the car and they find the paper with my friends addresses on it and that they would know I didn't kill myself. Few seconds later, understanding it was the end, I turn my head and suddenly I was not the body anymore but a very loving non-judging PRESENCE (an image.. ME the body would look at a fish tank and watch the fish). No form, just like I would have been in my head watching the fish. It was an outside view of the body - with still live in it - drawing down. The presence said " thank you Johanne for this life" with so much love and I woke up.
...
Few weeks ago, a voice - again in the morning almost woke up - was saying on and on, non stop (in my opinion for hours) "Bring your Consciousness to ONENESS". Non stop ! I woke up and I heard that for almost all morning... .the voice was the same than the dream, but I didn't see or felt anyone. Just a voice.
...
The mind has no clue Where I am, What I am. It will try to figure it out if I ask again and again. So I understand that by looking it is not an muscular thing but HOW do I do it? Open eyes? Closed eyes? Meditation state? not sure...
...
Who's watching (computer, people..) no clue. // Who washes the body / hair earlier? no clue. // Who was driving earlier? no clue but had the images of the Truman Show and WALL-E (when they are in the spaceship). Very automatic.
...
I've been a smiling-bubbly person all my life (some call that a "charmer" hmm...) . Kept saying that I am sure my natural state is to be happy - having no clue about the "Awareness states". Earlier and few times in the past weeks, I felt that JOY and HAPPINESS big time. It was not like in the movie "When Harry met Sally" but when the Masters say that some stages are very orgasmic, .. well... yep. The feelings were very deep, nothing to do with a joy from the world. No form, no dimension. Just WAS. (still is)
And I heard "Welcome Home" and I said where are you? I felt it behind my head... and it says "We've always been there" . But it was so... low profile, I'm not sure what it was or if it happened or wished it happened.
But the Joy, the Happiness were (still!) very real and profound. It's not from anything or anyone. It just IS. That I'm sure and I don't know where / What it looks like (if it's your next question :) ). I just feel them as part of who I really am. A No Endless Feeling of LOVE.
Again, been a smiling person. Lately, when I do - most of the time - I see the LOVE in others. I feel it. Not the human one, something much more deep. Not a judgmental or conditional one. Just LOVE with no description. And few told me that when that smile shows up, all my face glows and my eyes are very "loving".
...
I was following a bus who had an add on it saying : Regardez le monde sous un autre oeil. (well I speak French, what did you expect?)
...
When I was looking earlier in the "False image of me" (ref. other thread), few things came up. Don't know if it's what I'm supposed to look at but.. here it is:
. Emptiness (I saw very clearly 2 years ago that I was in an empty white-waiting-room. No window, no door. I feel I'm out of it with this process I started few months ago but still that emptiness feeling that is just waiting to be filled by the kind of feeling I felt earlier)
.No form
.Joy/Happiness ... No thoughts!
.Jo the body/mind/ego (thoughts-emotions/feelings). I'm writing but the sense of consciousness is not.
.Heart beat going on, giving the sensation I'm alive. But it stops right there, no more than "I'm alive because my heart is beating". No "me" in that sense.
...
Who is looking? 180 degrees.
No clue! but the presence I saw 9 months ago... didn't see it back. When I say see, I didn't see it I was it. and nothing was around.
LOTS of Love and Compassion. No end.
...
No control on thoughts.. because if I had, I would choose differently. I seem to fonction on automatic (crap!) with this body/mind/ego with no control whatsoever with their choices. My Chinese Medicine teacher was always saying " It is what it is"!. Well, I can resume it by that.
...
I have been reading posts, read few books lately to awake the amnesia part of me to go back to the BEINGNESS state. To remember what it was, where it was.. to give me the feelings inside to make me see what where who.
I have this URGE to do this. There is nothing else but that. The Joy and Happiness were made from that - feeling the ONENESS was happy to see me on the right path (kind of).
Well.. yes long but it's the first one so it is excusable :)
sorry anyway.
Will go back to look at I have no clue what but something will show up - maybe a rabbit today tho as it's EASTER.
Thanks for reading ALL the post :)
Jo
Re: DKelso's thread
Good story Jo, interesting........... and seems to reveal a necessary "looseness" in concepts around the boundaries of
"what you are" which can serve you ......now.
Let's shift gears ....................
Reading those posts, you see how this process is suppose to work: very simple, investigating and staying with JUST the present experience, bare registering, because you need real clarity to see the truth of No You in this moment. Thinking alot and interpreting and imagining won't be of any value now. This is all that will be focused on here: seeing through that dream of separation in a significant way. Because so much hangs on this.........
The truth stated simply is: "There is no you, only this". Do you see the truth of this? If so , please describe it, and if not, explain how your experience of what is convinces you there is a separate "you".
til later
"what you are" which can serve you ......now.
Let's shift gears ....................
Reading those posts, you see how this process is suppose to work: very simple, investigating and staying with JUST the present experience, bare registering, because you need real clarity to see the truth of No You in this moment. Thinking alot and interpreting and imagining won't be of any value now. This is all that will be focused on here: seeing through that dream of separation in a significant way. Because so much hangs on this.........
The truth stated simply is: "There is no you, only this". Do you see the truth of this? If so , please describe it, and if not, explain how your experience of what is convinces you there is a separate "you".
til later
Re: DKelso's thread
well, as of now because there is no ..... YAY I WOKE UP FROM THE DAY DREAM, yet... Yes I AM in the experience - even tho I know you will come back with the opposite, it's how it feels so far after almost 49 years in this life thinking I was the body/mind/Ego.
BUT at the same time, "looking" at the experience deeply, taking the time to feel the movement of the clock if I can say, there is no ME nowhere as I cannot identify with anything. I'm not the body -- but I just don't know why so far, neither for the mind . Nothing fits anywhere anymore. MY whole vision of the world is crumbling... ("Regardez le monde sous un autre oeil" the boss's add said this afternoon. )
I just understand the "idea" of, so far. (I'm new.. new ...new... 3 months ago, awakening from the world was not even in my mind, vocabulary. So... it is a REAL DEEP URGE, I cry when I think of it, to say how powerful I feel this QUEST).
I don't imagine or think a lot (well.. I think?) gosh used to have a fast track mind. Answering to 300-400 emails / day + phones, surrounded by hundreds of people NEEDING my help, .. for the past months I see more and more the mind quieting itself, not disturbing me in this quest of SEEKING FOR WHO/ WHAT / WHERE AM I ! I listen to people and been noticing there are no thoughts going on - blank mind, just the ecco of the other person's voice and words. No this or that, doing the grocery, forgot this. nope, nothing. QUIET. So where am I then?
The experience is ITSELF I can see that but I cannot feel it deeply enough for now. is my answer. I accept the concept of Not being a body or a mind/Ego. I'm in fact very happy for not being that. But I cannot relate to anything else so far. Still looking for WHAT AM I, then? If I'm not the experience, if I'm not there... what is? and where am I ? Are the questions remaining in me.
Sorry if I don't understand or feel it fast enough ... but I don't, like many others, have a 30 years background of buddhism or following a GURU. So I don't have the "EXPERIENCE" many have. I just have this huge will pushing me pushing me.. pushing me in the nowhere's land.
Till then, like you say
Jo
BUT at the same time, "looking" at the experience deeply, taking the time to feel the movement of the clock if I can say, there is no ME nowhere as I cannot identify with anything. I'm not the body -- but I just don't know why so far, neither for the mind . Nothing fits anywhere anymore. MY whole vision of the world is crumbling... ("Regardez le monde sous un autre oeil" the boss's add said this afternoon. )
I just understand the "idea" of, so far. (I'm new.. new ...new... 3 months ago, awakening from the world was not even in my mind, vocabulary. So... it is a REAL DEEP URGE, I cry when I think of it, to say how powerful I feel this QUEST).
I don't imagine or think a lot (well.. I think?) gosh used to have a fast track mind. Answering to 300-400 emails / day + phones, surrounded by hundreds of people NEEDING my help, .. for the past months I see more and more the mind quieting itself, not disturbing me in this quest of SEEKING FOR WHO/ WHAT / WHERE AM I ! I listen to people and been noticing there are no thoughts going on - blank mind, just the ecco of the other person's voice and words. No this or that, doing the grocery, forgot this. nope, nothing. QUIET. So where am I then?
The experience is ITSELF I can see that but I cannot feel it deeply enough for now. is my answer. I accept the concept of Not being a body or a mind/Ego. I'm in fact very happy for not being that. But I cannot relate to anything else so far. Still looking for WHAT AM I, then? If I'm not the experience, if I'm not there... what is? and where am I ? Are the questions remaining in me.
Sorry if I don't understand or feel it fast enough ... but I don't, like many others, have a 30 years background of buddhism or following a GURU. So I don't have the "EXPERIENCE" many have. I just have this huge will pushing me pushing me.. pushing me in the nowhere's land.
Till then, like you say
Jo
Re: DKelso's thread
Ok, good start. Now look at what you wrote, all the "I"s, and tell me what, exactly, in your experience NOW, Just Present Evidence, suggest to you "Jo" is a separate person? HINT: Stay with sensed and felt, where you feel your separateness to be, not thinking, memory, etc.
Re: DKelso's thread
that one was just on the top to be answered apparently because it took me 5 minutes total to write this on the paper.... tears were the HOST.
..
Separateness: from heart / head - it's what came up when I read your note.
But I DON'T KNOW I'M SEPARATE as it's how I've been raised and lived so far.
NOT connected to anyone, to anything. SENSE, FEEL of being LOST in the UNIVERSE for years.
Helping others to get their life back, while I "was" waiting for mine to start.
I don't feel otherwise than being separate - even if I was not knowing it really, just living it.
don't feel ONENESS. I just learned about that.
I'm sure the urge of this quest is from that emptiness that cannot take it anymore.!.
LOST should have been the nickname for this forum (for me).
Don't sense or feel otherwise so far even if I meditate, look, feel, quiet the mind... nothing, nada.
That's why I still feel as separate from ONENESS and being an I.
Jo
..
Separateness: from heart / head - it's what came up when I read your note.
But I DON'T KNOW I'M SEPARATE as it's how I've been raised and lived so far.
NOT connected to anyone, to anything. SENSE, FEEL of being LOST in the UNIVERSE for years.
Helping others to get their life back, while I "was" waiting for mine to start.
I don't feel otherwise than being separate - even if I was not knowing it really, just living it.
don't feel ONENESS. I just learned about that.
I'm sure the urge of this quest is from that emptiness that cannot take it anymore.!.
LOST should have been the nickname for this forum (for me).
Don't sense or feel otherwise so far even if I meditate, look, feel, quiet the mind... nothing, nada.
That's why I still feel as separate from ONENESS and being an I.
Jo
Re: DKelso's thread
Hi Jo,
Two things:
What specifically would you like me to help you with?
Secondly, virtually all of what you are saying is poetic but interpretive, conceptual. Please try to leave that aside for now. This looking we do is veeeerrrrry simple. Like looking at a cup on the table, or the keyboard and screen in front of you. We are staying on the level of lightness, darkness, hard feel of tapping keys, sensations. And that same, simple, childlike looking and describing is what you aim at the "you" that seems there in your experience. Does that make sense?
Two things:
What specifically would you like me to help you with?
Secondly, virtually all of what you are saying is poetic but interpretive, conceptual. Please try to leave that aside for now. This looking we do is veeeerrrrry simple. Like looking at a cup on the table, or the keyboard and screen in front of you. We are staying on the level of lightness, darkness, hard feel of tapping keys, sensations. And that same, simple, childlike looking and describing is what you aim at the "you" that seems there in your experience. Does that make sense?
Re: DKelso's thread
Hello,
don't know.
I know.
***
I answered with what came up, I didn't mentalize. it was how I felt "there is no YOU just this experience, do you see it". the answer, for now, is no.
I'll take the day on looking at a cup of coffee and other stuff, to keep it simple. Will report later.
VERY frustrating life, helping others easily but nothing in me for me. the no connection feeling is very strong. Sorry if it sound complicated (from my side).
don't know.
I know.
***
I answered with what came up, I didn't mentalize. it was how I felt "there is no YOU just this experience, do you see it". the answer, for now, is no.
I'll take the day on looking at a cup of coffee and other stuff, to keep it simple. Will report later.
VERY frustrating life, helping others easily but nothing in me for me. the no connection feeling is very strong. Sorry if it sound complicated (from my side).
Re: DKelso's thread
very good.......
try not to be too concerned about circumstances,,....... frustration, need for something for "me", it's coming if intention is strong and clear, ..........but not how you think ....
will leave you with this for now:
Truth always shines......the process, one of dissolving obstructing belief......................glimpses at first, then longer, deeper, .............truth, clearly seen informs thinking, erodes the false beliefs, until they collapse.....
flashes of freedom..........spaciousness..........joy.........fear........ all sign posts along the way.......
negative emotion accompanies resistance, positive follows release, ............
........remarkable confidence, fearlessness, peace, balance, over-flow of joy, ..........independent of circumstances, .....are all very close to the Gate.......
try not to be too concerned about circumstances,,....... frustration, need for something for "me", it's coming if intention is strong and clear, ..........but not how you think ....
will leave you with this for now:
Truth always shines......the process, one of dissolving obstructing belief......................glimpses at first, then longer, deeper, .............truth, clearly seen informs thinking, erodes the false beliefs, until they collapse.....
flashes of freedom..........spaciousness..........joy.........fear........ all sign posts along the way.......
negative emotion accompanies resistance, positive follows release, ............
........remarkable confidence, fearlessness, peace, balance, over-flow of joy, ..........independent of circumstances, .....are all very close to the Gate.......
Re: DKelso's thread
I'll keep those in mind (and on paper :) )
Thanks
Thanks
Re: DKelso's thread
But so far this morning, even if I "see" the automatic in actions - driving, eating, typing right now - the I is present everywhere. WHY? because it's how it feels and has felt all along in this life (automatic learning...). Also, because I don't feel anything else who would drive, eat, type but ME. (It's a NOW thing, tomorrow it might be different but for now it's how it feels, how I see it.)
Where is the I ? What is the I ? no clue.
Never asked those questions before few weeks ago and still no answers are coming up.
YES emotions are arising but I release them without getting involved (so far) because I know and understand the process will provoke that and "I'M" okay with it.
Where is the I ? What is the I ? no clue.
Never asked those questions before few weeks ago and still no answers are coming up.
YES emotions are arising but I release them without getting involved (so far) because I know and understand the process will provoke that and "I'M" okay with it.
Re: DKelso's thread
Jo,
Remember, you are always just looking right where "YOU" are. There are clues there. You must look beyond your assumptions friend!
What is this "I" that is "present everywhere", or "releasing" emotions? This process is not about releasing, but about identifying the one who would do something. Confirm it in experience, is that "I" a thought or some sensation or what?
Don't worry about getting answers, this is about seeing clearly, speaking truth based on what is confirmed in experience. All the rest is hearsay, spiritual "gossip" so to speak. Focus in and dig deeper!
warm vibes.....
Remember, you are always just looking right where "YOU" are. There are clues there. You must look beyond your assumptions friend!
What is this "I" that is "present everywhere", or "releasing" emotions? This process is not about releasing, but about identifying the one who would do something. Confirm it in experience, is that "I" a thought or some sensation or what?
Don't worry about getting answers, this is about seeing clearly, speaking truth based on what is confirmed in experience. All the rest is hearsay, spiritual "gossip" so to speak. Focus in and dig deeper!
warm vibes.....
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