Vikasana & Forgetmenots thread

[forgetmenot]

Hi Patrick,

Let's start from the beginning and the beginning is becoming aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.

‘Looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. Actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value. The term ‘actual experience’ (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, LOOKING’ is just plain looking at actual experience (AE) in the current moment. It is no different to looking for your car keys when you think you have misplaced them. But instead of looking for car keys, you are looking at AE - the raw experience MINUS the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

The following exercise points to what I mean.

If you have a ‘real’ apple then you can use that for this exercise.




Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Kay

[Vikasana]

It seems there's just the image of an apple you sent. No one seeing as such. Just what is seen.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Patrick,

Throughout this exploration, whatever I have highlighted in blue text I would like you to answer individually. I would also like you to use the quote function please. What I would like you to do is to put the questions in quote and your answer underneath. This ensures that the thread remains readable and easy to follow.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

It seems there's just the image of an apple you sent. No one seeing as such. Just what is seen.

It SEEMS or did you actually LOOK to see what I am pointing at. Please redo the exercise answering the questions in blue text.

Kay

[Vikasana]

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

There is an image labelled apple which can be seen in actual experience

However, is an apple actually known?

The image labelled apple is known.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Patrick,

Becoming aware of actual experience and what it is, is the key to this exploration. Your answers don't reflect LOOKING, so let's break it down so you know how to look.

If you have an ‘apple’ or any other piece of fruit or even a piece of cheese or chocolate will do….go get it and then place it in front of you on the table.

Now LOOK carefully.

1. The image of the ‘apple’ is the actual experience of colour and NOT the AE of an apple. The shape referred to as ‘apple’ is just different shades and patterns of colour. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the colour.

Does the colour itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just simply AE of colour?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that the colour appearing is that of an ‘apple’?

2. Now, pick up the ‘apple’ and close the eyes. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and of ‘hands’ and just focus on the sensation.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is an apple, and that it knows anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just simply AE of sensation?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sensation has anything to do with an ‘apple’?

3. Now, take a bite of the ‘apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the taste.

Does taste itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simply AE of taste?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the taste of an ‘apple’?

4. Now, have a smell of the ‘apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the smell.

Does smell itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simple AE of smell?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the smell of an ‘apple’?

5. Now, listen to the sound of the ‘crunch of an apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the sound.

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simple AE of sound?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sound is that of an ‘apple’?

6. So now look at the label ‘apple and the thought “I am looking at, and eating an apple”.

Does the label itself or the thought itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or are they just simply AE of label/thought?

Love, Kay

[Vikasana]

Thank you for your message Kay. I've had a busy day and as you may see from the time I'm replying. I'm tired and will rest and go to bed. I will have a proper go at your suggestions tomorrow and reply tomorrow. Thanks again.

[forgetmenot]

Thank you for letting me know.

K

[Vikasana]

Hi Kay. Thank you for breaking it down and your thoroughness. It's helpful and I think it's made it clearer. I've used a banana for the exersize instead as I don't have an apple.

Does the colour itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just simply AE of colour?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that the colour appearing is that of an ‘apple’?

The colour and shape itself doesn't suggest that it knows anything about a 'banana'.It is just simply the actual experience of colour and shape.It isn't known that the colour and shape is that of a 'banana'.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is an apple, and that it knows anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just simply AE of sensation? Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sensation has anything to do with an ‘apple’?

The sensation itself doesn't suggest it's a 'banana' or knows anything about a 'banana'. It is just simply AE of sensation. It isn't known that that the sensation has anything to do with a 'banana'.

Does taste itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simply AE of taste?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the taste of an ‘apple’?

The taste doesn't suggest it knows anything about a 'banana'. It is just simply AE of taste. It isn't known that it is the taste of a 'banana'.

Does smell itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simple AE of smell?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the smell of an ‘apple’?

The smell itself doesn't suggest that it knows anything about a 'banana'. It's is just simply AE of smell. It isn't known that it is the small of a 'banana'.

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it knows anything about an apple? Or is there just simple AE of sound?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sound is that of an ‘apple’?

The sound itself doesn't suggest it knows anything about a 'banana'. It is just simply AE of sound. It isn't known that it's the sound of a 'banana'.

Does the label itself or the thought itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or are they just simply AE of label/thought?

The label itself or the thought doesn't know anything about a 'banana'.It is just simply AE of label/thought.

With love Patrick.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Patrick,

Thank you for breaking it down and your thoroughness. It's helpful and I think it's made it clearer. I've used a banana for the exersize instead as I don't have an apple.

That's great! Being clear about AE is important.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Love, Kay

[Vikasana]

Hi Kay. Thank you for your message and exersize. I have been working today and just now looking at your message. Shall I practice your exersize for a couple of days and get then back to you. What do you suggest? Regards Patrick.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Patrick...yes, practice the exercise for a couple of days and then get back to me.

Love, Kay

[Vikasana]

Will do. Thank you Kay.

[Vikasana]

Hi Kay.

I've done three sessions with hot beverages. One yesterday evening of tea at a cafe in Cambridge and two today: one morning coffee at work and one tea this afternoon at John Lewis cafe. I've just realized you didn't specifically mean just with hot drinks so I will practice with other activities also and assume the more practice the better? I have been writing a few notes but I realize I probably don't need to do that and just experience. I did do it with chocolate as well when in John Lewis and people.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

So when in cafe or work drinking tea or coffee and eating chocolate:

1) Actual experience of simply colour,shape and other colours and shapes.
2) Actual experience of simply smell.
3)Actual experience of simply sensation.
4) actual experience of simply taste.
5) Actual experience of simply varied sounds.
6) Actual experience of simply varied thoughts.

Non of which suggest they know anything about tea, coffee, chocolate, 'people', 'self'.

Thanks Patrick.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Patrick,

I've done three sessions with hot beverages. One yesterday evening of tea at a cafe in Cambridge and two today: one morning coffee at work and one tea this afternoon at John Lewis cafe. I've just realized you didn't specifically mean just with hot drinks so I will practice with other activities also and assume the more practice the better? I have been writing a few notes but I realize I probably don't need to do that and just experience. I did do it with chocolate as well when in John Lewis and people.

Yes, the more practice the better. So it's a matter of breaking down as many different activities into AE throughout your day for the next few days. You can do it while washing dishes, showering, walking, watching TV, shopping, working etc.

Okay..so let's start to have a look at the nature of thought.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them. Looking for the gap is a way to slow the thoughts, as the objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

Kay :)

[Vikasana]

Thank you again Kay.

Since last message I've been looking at actual experience in other activities other than hot beverages such as walking, in bathroom, on internet, sat on sofa, shopping, watching people.

I will do the next exersizes you suggest of noticing thought and the gap between thoughts.

When would you like me to get back to you?