Ready to be guided through the gate

[neilw]

Hi my name is Neil. I am 25 and living in Brisbane, Australia. I have been 'observing' for a while now and feel there have been several brief glimpses of the truth. Intellectually the whole thing makes sense to me, but the actual shift of awareness is yet to come. I would be very greatful to have some guidance in making that transition from not seeing to Seeing. Much thanks

[aubergine99]

Hi Neil,

My name is Brigitte and I will happily guide you through this process.

What brings you to L.U.? How did you find us?

You say you have had several glimpses of the truth. Can you elaborate a little on what you have seen?

What are your expectations of this process?

Best wishes
Brigitte

[neilw]

Hi brigitte, thanks for the assist! I first came across the website about a year ago I think. I found the app when researching the gateless gate one day. And then recently I have been spending alit of time trying to order my brain what I call differentiating brain functions and it occured to me that you guys are talkin about the same thing zo here I am :) as for glimpses of truth I guezs there have been moments when the sensations I am experiencing change. And it feels really peacfull and pleasant and theres a sort of clarity. As I say this it occures to me that this may just be a change of state and not seeing clearly?

[neilw]

Oh expectations! I figure as we go throug the question and anzwer process there will come a point where there is a realisation here and then no self will be clear.

[aubergine99]

Thanks for your reply.

If you haven't already seen it, there is our disclaimer on the Home page.

Please would you confirm you have seen the above and would like me to be your guide.

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least once a day.
2. In general, I will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Please learn to use the quote function as shown in Announcements section at the top of the Guiding Area.

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. It's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.

A helpful hint: You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

Sorry about that but now that’s been said, we can proceed.

As for glimpses of truth I guezs there have been moments when the sensations I am experiencing change. And it feels really peacfull and pleasant and theres a sort of clarity. As I say this it occures to me that this may just be a change of state and not seeing clearly?

Change of states is not what we are looking for here. States come and go, some are peaceful and pleasant, some are not. It is realizing that there is no separate self. As your guide, I am not here to teach you anything or change or add to your beliefs in any way. Only to point you where to look and you do the work.

Please will you start by telling me what comes up when it is read that there is no “you” at all in reality, not in any shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will there ever be? There is only life moving freely, without any general manager called "you".

Best wishes
Brigitte

[neilw]

Hello again! so I've read through the terms and conditions and I am happy to accept all of them. I will definately do my best to post at least once a day. Ready to get started!.

Please will you start by telling me what comes up when it is read that there is no “you” at all in reality, not in any shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will there ever be? There is only life moving freely, without any general manager called "you".

As i read this I feel like I am real, like I am here reading this. Its like here I am, how could i not be here right now. Its a feeling that sort of sits in my head and my belly, 2 points of sensation that i always indentify with "Me"

[aubergine99]

Hi Neil,

As i read this I feel like I am real, like I am here reading this. Its like here I am, how could i not be here right now. Its a feeling that sort of sits in my head and my belly, 2 points of sensation that i always indentify with "Me"

What evidence do you have from direct experience that there is a ‘you’ here? Other than a feeling in your head and belly – what makes that feeling a ‘you’? Could it be that there is an experience of a sensation and a thought that says ‘that’s me’? Take a look.

You may question why we look at direct experience (DE) to verify what’s real. That’s because that is all we have to go with. In any given moment, is there anything other than DE? If so, what is there? Going deeper, is there anything other than the present moment? Where is past and future to be found?

Take care
Brigitte

[neilw]

What evidence do you have from direct experience that there is a ‘you’ here? Other than a feeling in your head and belly – what makes that feeling a ‘you’? Could it be that there is an experience of a sensation and a thought that says ‘that’s me’? Take a look.

When i look to the DE i see the stomach, head and chest. I know the thought that "this is me" is here, but I dont seem to be able to see it happening. Its like all my expereince is going through this belief and when i try to look at it, it just flows around my attention, like i can't quite grasp it.

In any given moment, is there anything other than DE? If so, what is there? Going deeper, is there anything other than the present moment? Where is past and future to be found?

It seems like there is DE that i am acutely aware of. IE my face, hands, sensations some thoughts, and then there is DE that like i said seems to be really elusive like i see it there, but when i try to experience it directly it kinda just disappears.

Thanks Brigitte

[neilw]

Where is past and future to be found?

Right now it feels like i am a jumble of past present and future. I see a bunch of current sensation, some memories some ideas about the future and a vagueness as to what is real and what isn't in those sensations if you know what i mean. Looking closer it goes, this is a memory that is happening now, this is an idea about tommorow that is happening now. I am here, these experiences are happening now. Thats probably abit too intellectual i guess.

[aubergine99]

Hello Neil,

When i look to the DE i see the stomach, head and chest. I know the thought that "this is me" is here, but I dont seem to be able to see it happening. Its like all my expereince is going through this belief and when i try to look at it, it just flows around my attention, like i can't quite grasp it.

Good. So you see the stomach and chest (are you sure about the head?) and you see the thought that says ‘it’s me’. That is DE. Is there actually an experience of a ‘me’?

It seems like there is DE that i am acutely aware of. IE my face, hands, sensations some thoughts, and then there is DE that like i said seems to be really elusive like i see it there, but when i try to experience it directly it kinda just disappears.

Look closely at thoughts. There is undoubtedly an experience of thought, but do you experience their content?

If I say, think of a slice of indulgent chocolate cake or a plateful of steak and chips (or whatever else you prefer perhaps). Can you visualize these? Imagine the aroma and taste of that juicy, tender steak. How it feels in your mouth. Or the smooth texture and depth of flavour of that cake? Yumm!

Now bring your attention to the present and you can see there is no sign of these heavenly bites. They simply do not exist. This is the same for all thought content. Thought content can point to the real but is not in itself. Notice that experience is real and thought content is imagined. This will really help in this enquiry. The more you can differentiate between DE (tastes, visual images, sounds, smells, sensations including thoughts) and thought content, the clearer things will appear.

Where is past and future to be found?

Right now it feels like i am a jumble of past present and future. I see a bunch of current sensation, some memories some ideas about the future and a vagueness as to what is real and what isn't in those sensations if you know what i mean. Looking closer it goes, this is a memory that is happening now, this is an idea about tommorow that is happening now. I am here, these experiences are happening now. Thats probably abit too intellectual i guess.

Great, keep looking closer. Past and future are just thoughts that are only ever happening NOW.

Here is an exercise for you. Sit for a few minutes and write down as a list whatever you experience, ie.

I am sitting
I watch tv
I hear a bird singing
I drink my tea

Then repeat the exercise, this time omitting the pronoun ‘I’ or ‘me’ or ‘mine’. Again write a list, as in:

Sitting
Watching tv
Hearing a bird singing
Drinking tea

What do you notice from your lists? Does one feel more real? Are they saying different things?

Let me know your findings.

Brigitte

[neilw]

Hi brigitte, first just a big thankyou for sticking with me this far, i really appreciate it!

Good. So you see the stomach and chest (are you sure about the head?) and you see the thought that says ‘it’s me’. That is DE. Is there actually an experience of a ‘me’?

I shoulda have said, feeling the head haha. I am starting to recognise the separate elements of the experience, i feel the sensation, then recognise there is a thought about this being me, and a feeling also. I am still getting abit confused when looking for the experience of me. I just search around in the experience of the moment, noticing whatever sensations are around, then i think, What am i supposed to be, how do i know if its me or not, will i know it when i see it? I get stuck on that experience of 'this is me', my mind says. ahh here i am!

If I say, think of a slice of indulgent chocolate cake or a plateful of steak and chips ......Now bring your attention to the present and you can see there is no sign of these heavenly bites.

When i do this it brings some clarity, i have been going between imagining the meat and then looking for it, and then experiencing that "self" experience and then looking for it, I still seem to come back to the feeling and then think, here I am..

Here is an exercise for you. Sit for a few minutes and write down as a list whatever you experience,......Then repeat the exercise, this time omitting the pronoun ‘I’ or ‘me’ or ‘mine’. Again write a list,

So when i look at the "i am" list , the I am part seems like some imaginary label attached to the attention like its unneccessary to that attached to the action. When i look at the other list, it feels like its more accurate of whats happening. Sitting, listening to music ect, It feels like that is what is actually happening.

Thanks again.

[aubergine99]

Hello,

Hi brigitte, first just a big thankyou for sticking with me this far, i really appreciate it!

Thanks, and I will stick with you for as long as it takes.

Good. So you see the stomach and chest (are you sure about the head?) and you see the thought that says ‘it’s me’. That is DE. Is there actually an experience of a ‘me’?

I shoulda have said, feeling the head haha. I am starting to recognise the separate elements of the experience, i feel the sensation, then recognise there is a thought about this being me, and a feeling also. I am still getting abit confused when looking for the experience of me. I just search around in the experience of the moment, noticing whatever sensations are around, then i think, What am i supposed to be, how do i know if its me or not, will i know it when i see it? I get stuck on that experience of 'this is me', my mind says. ahh here i am!

Good. These are early days and it’s natural to feel confused.

Yes, notice how it’s only thought that suggests there is a ‘you’ to be confused or even to be. Is there really a ‘you’ that is confused or are there just thoughts about confusion arising?

If I say, think of a slice of indulgent chocolate cake or a plateful of steak and chips ......Now bring your attention to the present and you can see there is no sign of these heavenly bites.

When i do this it brings some clarity, i have been going between imagining the meat and then looking for it, and then experiencing that "self" experience and then looking for it, I still seem to come back to the feeling and then think, here I am..

This is just habitual thoughts playing out. Keep looking for a ‘you’ in experience. Whenever a thought pops up that says ‘I did that or I am doing this’, look for this self. Is there one or is it a sensation or thought?

So when i look at the "i am" list , the I am part seems like some imaginary label attached to the attention like its unneccessary to that attached to the action. When i look at the other list, it feels like its more accurate of whats happening. Sitting, listening to music ect, It feels like that is what is actually happening.

Good work Neil! The ‘I’ is completely unnecessary. Look around - action happens and no ‘you’ doing it.

So, let’s examine experience some more. Is there a ‘do-er’ of action?

Please do this exercise. Walk into the kitchen and prepare yourself a hot drink. Watch every action taking place. Look at each step taken, every movement happening. Is it ‘you’ making the leg muscles move, raising each foot or is it automatic? Is it ‘you’ opening cupboard door or reaching for cup, opening tea/coffee container, picking up a spoon, opening fridge, pouring water/milk, lifting cup? Pay attention to what IS ACTUALLY happening and not what you think is happening. There is a significant difference. Tell me what you find.

Brigitte

[neilw]

Hi Brigitte, how is your day going?

This is just habitual thoughts playing out. Keep looking for a ‘you’ in experience. Whenever a thought pops up that says ‘I did that or I am doing this’, look for this self. Is there one or is it a sensation or thought?

So i have been noticing there are actions happening and there are seperate thoughts, that often coincide with those actions. Then when i noticed that those coinciding thoughts could say one thing and body do another, i was a little shocked. Hang on i can say walk left, but the body walks right, dont eat this, and the body eats it! So i am now looking at the impulses that cause the body to actually do something and thinking.. Thats me! haha and then I look at the thought of thats me! and say oh thats a thought as well. But still a bit confused. That was the findings of the excercise :)
Neil

[aubergine99]

Hi,

Hi Brigitte, how is your day going?

Doing good thanks and enjoying our unusually hot weather here in UK. How are you?

So i have been noticing there are actions happening and there are seperate thoughts, that often coincide with those actions. Then when i noticed that those coinciding thoughts could say one thing and body do another, i was a little shocked. Hang on i can say walk left, but the body walks right, dont eat this, and the body eats it! So i am now looking at the impulses that cause the body to actually do something and thinking.. Thats me! haha and then I look at the thought of thats me! and say oh thats a thought as well. But still a bit confused. That was the findings of the excercise :)

Sometimes action directly seems to follow thought and sometimes not.

Who is this ‘I’ that was a little shocked and a bit confused? Can you describe it for me? How is ‘I’ experienced?

The point of the exercise is to check if there is ‘do-er’ of action. Who or what makes the leg muscles move when walking and who/what pours the water into cups? What did you find? You say you find thoughts of ‘that’s me’ but do you find a ‘me’ doing anything? It’s important you answer all questions I put to you. You missed a couple from my last post.

Now let’s turn attention to looking, hearing, tasting, feeling and smelling. Are you in control of these?

Can you turn the senses on and off?
Without thinking, can you tell where a sound originates from?
Is there any distance between a sound and the awareness of it?
When looking at an object in front of you, can you find a line where seeing ends and object starts?

Check the experience.

I look forward to your reply, Neil.

[neilw]

Doing good thanks and enjoying our unusually hot weather here in UK. How are you?

Doing good also, I am enjoying a looong weekend off work!

It’s important you answer all questions I put to you. You missed a couple from my last post.

Yep understood, there were a few questions that when i hear them and its just like.. i Have no idea! Like is there a you doing these things? and then my brain just seems to short circuit and go.. whhaaattt??? haha I recognise thats thoughts and feelings, and am now putting more attention on the Direct experiences.

Who is this ‘I’ that was a little shocked and a bit confused? Can you describe it for me? How is ‘I’ experienced?

That sense of shock was just thoughts about the realisation. THere was the thought go left, while the body went right, and then a less clear thought that said Wooaa this is strange! Thoughts do whatever they want and nothing changes in the senses.

The point of the exercise is to check if there is ‘do-er’ of action. Who or what makes the leg muscles move when walking and who/what pours the water into cups? What did you find? You say you find thoughts of ‘that’s me’ but do you find a ‘me’ doing anything? It’s important you answer all questions I put to you. You missed a couple from my last post.

There is no me doing anything, there is just movement, there is thoughts about action and but they dont directly control the action. The action and the doing of the action are the same thing.

Can you turn the senses on and off?

Definately can't do that

Without thinking, can you tell where a sound originates from?

No, they are just there, they dont seem to come from anywhere.

Is there any distance between a sound and the awareness of it?

There is no distance. The sound is where it is, the awreness of the sound and the same is the same thing.

When looking at an object in front of you, can you find a line where seeing ends and object starts?

I see the object, it is just there, there is no seperate seeing, just the object. There is a sensation in the eyes but thats not seeing, The seeing is the object itself.

Thanks Brigitte,