guide needed

[damon123jones]

I would like a guide please. I have been using the little app for a month now looking at
The labeling in and out of the glue of that process

[Nettie]

Dear Damon,
I will be happy to be your guide.

Here are a few ground rules,
1. You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"
I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.
2. In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.
3. Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

This is an utterly intimate honest deep looking. Keep the focus on yourself. Keep it simple.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin.

What are your expectations for this process?
How will it change you?
How will this feel?
You can press 'subscribe to this topic in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive an email every time I post here. Some report its easier to write their response somewhere else and then copy it to avoid time running out on the forum.

Nettie

[damon123jones]

thank you Nettie.
fear/trust
confusion/direction
thirst/wanting
these go around appearantly inside my experience.
I crave a final ending to feeling like a mouse in a cage
to know whats going on . finished and can really live then.
with meaning that isn't passing.

[Nettie]

Dear Damon,

"fear/trust
confusion/direction
thirst/wanting
these go around appearantly inside my experience.
I crave a final ending to feeling like a mouse in a cage
to know whats going on . finished and can really live then.
with meaning that isn't passing."

How beautiful you express your desire!
It is your very desire that defines you.
Look now.
Can you find what desires?
What is looking?
To what are you referring when you use the word I ?
Does it have shape or color or any un-changing qualities or characteristics?

Much love,
Nettie

[damon123jones]

How beautiful you express your desire!
It is your very desire that defines you.
Look now.
Can you find what desires?
What is looking?
To what are you referring when you use the word I ?
Does it have shape or color or any un-changing qualities or characteristics?

I cant say the desire is permanent but. is building since I don't know when.
what is looking is mmmm I cant really say other than a felt sence or feeling that
iam here but other than that I cant locate it for sure.
it is looking ? it feels as though iam looking but I cant not look either so hmm.
I guess its a body sence and the rest I say its me but the actual I or me would be just the awake part
receiving or feeling tasting noticing.
thankyou for the kind words nettie

[Nettie]

Dear Damon,


"I cant say the desire is permanent but. is building since I don't know when.
what is looking is mmmm I cant really say other than a felt sence or feeling that
iam here but other than that I cant locate it for sure."

Look! What does it look like?
If I told you there was a pot of gold under your chair you would look.
Look like that. Simple. Direct.

"it is looking ? it feels as though iam looking but I cant not look either so hmm.
I guess its a body sence and the rest I say its me but the actual I or me would be just the awake part
receiving or feeling tasting noticing. "

Don't think about it or try to figure it out.
Look.

Now simply relax and notice without trying to figure it out.. The nature of thought.
Can you remember all the thoughts you had yesterday?
Can you predict the thoughts you will have tomorrow?
If you were the thinker of thoughts you would probably have nice pleasant thoughts yes?
Are you the thinker of your thoughts?

Love,
Nettie

[damon123jones]

Now simply relax and notice without trying to figure it out.. The nature of thought.
Can you remember all the thoughts you had yesterday?
Can you predict the thoughts you will have tomorrow?
If you were the thinker of thoughts you would probably have nice pleasant thoughts yes?
Are you the thinker of your thoughts.

true I can see a me it has no shape or color of anything of substance.
there is a glue like belief though still.
ive spent the last couple of days looking at thought
and no thinker thinking but the attention to it is so riveted
and close it does seem as though its a me thinking
when I see its actually attention on a leash to the process of thought.
its nature?
in-bread self concentrated , petty, insecure, dominating,naming.concretizing everything in contact.
like being handcuffed to an insane sibling

[damon123jones]

and thankyou nettie :))

[Nettie]

Dear Damon,
"true I can see a me it has no shape or color of anything of substance.
there is a glue like belief though still."

What is belief?
Can you find one?

"I've spent the last couple of days looking at thought
and no thinker thinking but the attention to it is so riveted
and close it does seem as though its a me thinking
when I see its actually attention on a leash to the process of thought.
its nature?
in-bred self concentrated , petty, insecure, dominating,naming.concretizing everything in contact.
like being handcuffed to an insane sibling"

Yes...the objectifying mind spontaneously names all perception with learned shared words.
What is there before the mind describes it?

Nice! It can come as a great relief to see that we are not the thinker!
Who is handcuffed?
Look!

Can you say when one thought ends and another begins?
Can you 'stop' the flowing and 'capture' a thought?

Notice how all perception occurs absolutely spontaneously without a you having to do a thing!
Is there a separate you making life happen?
If there were a controller of life your life would probably have worked out better by now.
Is there a you who controls life?

Love you,
Nettie

[damon123jones]

What is belief?
Can you find one?


Yes...the objectifying mind spontaneously names all perception with learned shared words.
What is there before the mind describes it?

Nice! It can come as a great relief to see that we are not the thinker!
Who is handcuffed?
Look!

Can you say when one thought ends and another begins?
Can you 'stop' the flowing and 'capture' a thought?

Notice how all perception occurs absolutely spontaneously without a you having to do a thing!
Is there a separate you making life happen?
If there were a controller of life your life would probably have worked out better by now.
Is there a you who controls life?

Love you,
Nettie[/quote]

does belief exist?
no I cant find it.

who is handcuffed ?
I want to say me but, like the gold not under my chair isn anywhere to be caught.
is it just sensations-thoughts joining together and then a not wanting of the experience, that is happening ?
the me is extra and an assumption appearing to be here and real ?
am I making desisions ?

a thought appears" turn head to left", there is a a head turn .
decisions made

I cant find me but feel I exist and must stay sharp and on guard .
watching out to try and avoid bad and make sure good things are pursued

[damon123jones]

love to you nettie

[Nettie]

Dear Damon,

"does belief exist?
no I cant find it."
Nice.

who is handcuffed ?
"I want to say me but, like the gold not under my chair isn anywhere to be caught."
Perhaps there is nothing there?

"is it just sensations-thoughts joining together and then a not wanting of the experience, that is happening ?
the me is extra and an assumption appearing to be here and real ?
am I making decisions ?"

Don't ask me. This is your inquiry.
Keep the focus on yourself.
Answer them.

"a thought appears" turn head to left", there is a a head turn ."

Does thought precede every action?
It would be impossible to walk or do anything if we had to think about everything.

"decisions made "

Is there a separate decider or chooser? Or does life simply happen and then the mind describes it and claims the action by labeling it decision?

"I cant find me"
Super!

"but feel I exist"

Notice how feelings arise spontaneously and are simultaneously labeled by the objectifying mind.
A surge of every may be labeled fear or anxiety or love or excitement when contemplating jumping out of an airplane.

" and must stay sharp and on guard .watching out to try and avoid bad and make sure good things are pursued"

What is staying sharp and on guard?


Most people experience reality as a collection of separate "things". We have become enchanted with word/thoughts to such an extent that we have forgotten to experience reality as it is, we have been taught to ignore it.
If I am walking with a friend, I may physically point to a tree and my friend will experience a similar reality for a moment, but if I am talking with a friend later, I could say "oh! We saw the most magnificent tree today!" But no matter how much I tell her about it, I could never convey the color, light, leaves in the wind, the hills beyond, the feeling of my feet on the path, the rumbling in my stomach, the touch of the breeze on my face, etc. I could write volumes about a single moment and it could never convey the experience.
So language is a paltry tool we use for communication. I could sing or dance the tree, I could paint a picture. Even a photograph would not contain the experience, as life itself, reality itself cannot be contained!
And yet that is what we are trying to do with word/thought. Trying to "catch" life! Why? Are we frightened to see that life is living itself? That there is no separate individual who can control it?
It is so simple to see that when we see a flower, we Know it, yet when we try to describe it, it seems complicated!
Thinking is not the problem, as thoughts are part of the amazing display! But when they are believed and held onto as reality, it is very painful, as it seems to separate us apart from the timeless flowing.
Is there a separate you?

Love,
Nettie
(You are welcome ...I simply love to talk about this and write poems about it all the time.)

[damon123jones]

Most people experience reality as a collection of separate "things". We have become enchanted with word/thoughts to such an extent that we have forgotten to experience reality as it is

the enchantment goes on today i noticed it is like having a companion and there is enjoyment
there to catagorizing judging etc in that happening.
such a habit.. . .

Is there a separate decider or chooser? Or does life simply happen and then the mind describes it and claims the action by labeling it decision?

you are right the actions happen the idea or thought is after or not at all.

Trying to "catch" life! Why? Are we frightened to see that life is living itself? That there is no separate individual who can control it?

the pathetic attempt to grasp yes ,and fear of not being enough so talk my self into a bigger more important smarter better looking . . of substance. and not nothing.

the effort l think i do could end .

with all my heart thank you nettie

[Nettie]

Dear Damon,

"the enchantment goes on today i noticed it is like having a companion and there is enjoyment
there to catagorizing judging etc in that happening.
such a habit.. . . "
Yes it is all part of what is spontaneously happening.
Everything's included.


"you are right the actions happen the idea or thought is after or not at all."
Yes.

Trying to "catch" life! Why? Are we frightened to see that life is living itself? That there is no separate individual who can control it?

"the pathetic attempt to grasp yes ,and fear of not being enough so talk my self into a bigger more important smarter better looking . . of substance. and not nothing."

Notice how all this happens without a you controlling it.
Or choosing it.
Yet the appearance of a chooser also arises totally spontaneously. Yes?

"the effort l think i do could end . "
Notice how the appearance of effort arises just as naturally and effortlessly as the appearance of effortlessness.....

Is there a separate you thinking thoughts?
A chooser?
A controller of life?
Look.
It only takes a second to look.
If I told you there was a pot of gold under your chair you would look and know. You wouldn't think about it....Right? So look in the same way. Without thinking about it.

Love,
Nettie

[damon123jones]

Notice how all this happens without a you controlling it.
Or choosing it.
Yet the appearance of a chooser also arises totally spontaneously. Yes?

"the effort l think i do could end . "
Notice how the appearance of effort arises just as naturally and effortlessly as the appearance of effortlessness.....

Is there a separate you thinking thoughts?
A chooser?
A controller of life?
Look.
It only takes a second to look.
If I told you there was a pot of gold under your chair you would look and know. You wouldn't think about it....Right? So look in the same way. Without thinking about it.



letting this roominate soak and such nettie. :>