Soulseeker, Please come in :^)

[Cam-RT]

Hello Leah...

The rules pretty much apply the same way here. Please let us know where you feel stuck...You're close... So with some focus and determination we should get you finished in no time :^)

[dreamer]

At your service :)

[idolanuel]

Hi Leah :-)

[soulseeker]

Hi there,

Thanks for the quick reply and attention.

OK where I am stuck....

I feel that whilst I understand the principle of no self I am unsure I have really felt it. When I reconnect with what is actually real, I can see that thoughts are a product of my imagination.

But a lot of the time, without bringing myself to this place (this moment) I just get caught up and carried along with my minds interpretation of things. 'Me' in the star role!

I also can't seem to shake the fact that whilst there isn't real 'me' having these thoughts of a 'myself' surely these thoughts have controlled this body most of my life, and for that reason people see the 'me' which has been portrayed, therefore a 'me' does in someway exist (hmmm even as I write this I start to question it as how can I know what other people think???).

Lx

[dreamer]

Hi Leah

When I reconnect with what is actually real, I can see that thoughts are a product of my imagination.

I would like you to look at thoughts again. Are they really a product of your imagination? What is your imagination? How can you recognize it as your imagination? In what way are thoughts connected to YOU?

Greetings Vivi

[soulseeker]

Hi Vivi,

I want to take a closer look at this but my initial thoughts on the matter are...

Are they really a product of your imagination?

It appears that my thoughts either label what is there, for example, dictate what is going on around. Or, based on stimulus, judge, project in to the future, fish information form the past etc in order to understand what is happening around, what is being sensed. So thoughts are based on what my mind has learnt, and what has been experienced. So for example, I am imagining an ideal to compare against in order to judge, I am imagining what might happen therefore projecting in to the future or I am remembering the past, which is my minds interpretation of what is no longer real. In this sense I am using the word imagination. Something that is not real.

What is your imagination? How can you recognize it as your imagination?

I would say an imagination is a mental record. Every experience is processed and recorded by the mind and therefore everything the body senses is interpretation and transformed in to mind matter. What goes on inside my head feels like my imagination. Based on reality maybe (?) but once inside the mind no longer real. So in that sense my minds interpretation is just that, minds matter. However whilst writing that it makes me think that everything that goes on inside my head is imagined, ie if sensing something as soon as it is perceived it becomes an interpretation as opposed to a reality???? Bit confused.

In what way are thoughts connected to YOU?

They are connected to me as they use this minds experience to judge, this body to sense etc. SO where this body and mind have gone, what they have experienced, who they have been born to all make them subject to different experiences, influences etc. These all feed the mind different information and therefore create a 'me'. When communicating with others 'my' thoughts appear to be different therefore it feels like my mind is specific to 'me'.

Leahx

[dreamer]

Good Leah, take a closer look and also look at this. Are thoughts YOURS. Are YOU the one thinking thought. Do YOU have control over thoughts?


Vivi

[soulseeker]

Hi,

Sorry disappeared, back again.

Are thoughts YOURS. Are YOU the one thinking thought. Do YOU have control over thoughts?

I am going to answer these back to front...

Do I have control...Not really but it appears I do sometimes. Things come in to my mind without control. I do not choose what pops up and often things swim round in my head when I would rather they disappear, so in this sense no, I can't control them. BUT I do seem to have some control in the sense that I can remember or recall information or parts of conversation etc. Also, I can stimulate thoughts through association (ie smells, visions etc) and also retrain myself to 'think' differently (ie through hypnotherapy relaxation tape). So in this sense it feels like they can be controlled.

Are thoughts mine...They happen in this body so they feel like mine. They talk to me in a way that I would talk to someone else. They are familiar to me as they sound like me and have always been there. I this sense they feel like mine. They definitely aren't someone else's, or so it seems.

Am I thinking thought...No I don't believe I am. Though my thoughts make me think there is an I that is!

Lx

[dreamer]

Hi Leah

BUT I do seem to have some control in the sense that I can remember or recall information or parts of conversation etc.

What is memory? Can you find a memory, when you look in direct experience?

I can stimulate thoughts through association (ie smells, visions etc) and also retrain myself to 'think' differently (ie through hypnotherapy relaxation tape). So in this sense it feels like they can be controlled.

Can you stimulate thoughts through assocition etc. or are thoughts stimulated? Can you find any 'I' stimulating?

It feels like thoughts can be controlled. Can they?

Am I thinking thought...No I don't believe I am. Though my thoughts make me think there is an I that is!

Not believing is not good enough :) You must know! Check it again.

Are thoughts yours?

Warm regards Vivi

[soulseeker]

Hi Vivi,

What is memory? Can you find a memory, when you look in direct experience?

When you talk about direct experience do you mean this moment now? If so then no, memory does not take place in the present moment. I see memory as my minds store of information inputted over my lifetime.

Can you stimulate thoughts through association etc. or are thoughts stimulated? Can you find any 'I' stimulating?

Thoughts are stimulated. Because it is learnt behaviour, ie if I do this then I stimulate this mental/physical response. It is this body creating the stimulus and the mind responding, making it feel controlled. But no, when I look there is no 'I' doing any of the stimulating. Just the mind choosing to do it.

I do question where the impulse to stimulate comes from. Not always, but sometimes it feels like there is something driving me that moves beyond the mind and body. This force comes from a good place. So, say for example I am dancing, when I loose myself in the movement I do not think what to do but my body is driven from somewhere beyond the mind. I know this is moving away from thought but it feels connected to stimulation, in this instance the mind is not in control.

Lx

[dreamer]

What is mind?

[dreamer]

Hi Leah

Where are you? What is happening?

Vivi

[soulseeker]

Hi Vivi,

Sorry, been difficult as we have been celebrating a wedding. I hoped I'd have time in between to write but I haven't. I should have predicted it and warned you. By the way we have the final leg so tomorrow may be difficult.

Anyway back to work...

What is mind? Good question. What I refer to as the mind is the brains activity. The noise. The part that talks, thinks, judges, predicts etc. The part that makes me think that a me exists!

Leahx

[dreamer]

That's fine Leah, nice to know :)

Does the brain exist?
Does mind? Check it, please

greetings Vivi

[soulseeker]

Evening Vivi,

I will not be able to write a full answer to this tonight but will do tomorrow.

I will be thinking about it though. With my brain?

Lx