Release

[Honeysuckle]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the idea of a me running things is just not the truth. That life is living through this body and that there is a possibility that I can get out of the way and just allow life to flow in relative peace.

What are you looking for at LU?
A helping hand to ask the right questions that allow me to follow the trail inwards and home. I feel like my mind is strong and holds really tightly to its idea of self and so it seems to need to be cornered or tricked before it yields.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
For questions and pointers to help me bypass my thinking brain to get to the truth. I don’t want to expect too much though, trying not to project what anything should feel or look like, just talking with someone who truly understands the process would be joyous!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Been aware that there was so much more to being alive since a small child, aware of the presence of a deeper truth for decades. I had an ‘accidental’ crazy experience where my body had a full body orgasm and ‘I’ left my body through the top of my head into a great void of everythingness aged 19. It was terrifying before the orgasm but bliss in the darkness place, I came back into the body and have been searching for understanding of what happened ever since. Been reading, looking etc for many years but no real practice of any kind, just living. So ready to know the truth now !

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

You might read Gateless Gatecrashers dowoadable from Resources here.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

~ Stacy

[Anastacia42]

PS. Sometimes the site goes down due to bot attacks. It has been doing that lately. Just try again later. It will be back. They're working on it.

Loving

[Honeysuckle]

Hello Stacy, thank you for replying and for offering to help.
I will get on and answer the questions you asked....

How will life change?

I don't know but from what I have read and heard of others experience, everything will change yet nothing will change

How will you change?

I really don't know, I hope not too much !

What will be different?

Again, I don't know but maybe life out there will seem calmer, clearer.

What is missing?

Nothing except the realisation that nothing is missing!

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Phonecalls or zoom calls etc will be tricky for me as my partner works from home and I have my son and his grilfriend staying at the moment. Writing would be better fro me but if that is a problem I can find a quiet moment/corner of my house. I am in London time zone, UK.

Much love

[Anastacia42]

That's fine. I only work in writing here on the forum.



So now what comes up when reading there's no "self " never has been and that it's all just a made up story?

Loving,

[Honeysuckle]

Hi Stacy

So now what comes up when reading there's no "self " never has been and that it's all just a made up story?

A mixture of relief and also sadness. Relief that ‘I’ am not alone and never have been or ever could be. Asa young child I remember feelings of deep loneliness when I became aware that I was separate from everyone else, that I had my own thoughts and feelings. This just complicated things and I wanted to just ‘be’.

Sadness I suppose because I have spent many years becoming what I thought was a more settled and peaceful version of ‘me’

I admit there is a part that has real affection for the me, for anyone’s sense of me.

With love

[Honeysuckle]

Hi Stacy

So now what comes up when reading there's no "self " never has been and that it's all just a made up story?

A mixture of relief and also sadness. Relief that ‘I’ am not alone and never have been or ever could be. As a young child I remember feelings of deep loneliness when I became aware that I was separate from everyone else, that I had my own thoughts and feelings. This just complicated things and I wanted to just ‘be’.

Sadness I suppose because I have spent many years becoming what I thought was a more settled and peaceful version of ‘me’ Almost like it’s been a waste of time !


With love

[Anastacia42]

Yes. That's understandable.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Honeysuckle]

Hi Stacy,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, good analogy. I will use it to check my answers and enquiry.

Thank you x

[Anastacia42]

Good. Then try this:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Honeysuckle]

Hi Stacy,
…..

I see the coffee mug, white and blue, the steam arising off it =seeing
My hand reaches out and picks the mug up, it is warm, the surface hard = touching
The cup goes to my lips and I hear the slurping noise as I drink = hearing
The coffee is bitter and creamy at the same time = tasting
I smell the coffee aroma in my nose = smelling
Noticing that this coffee in the cup will be gone soon = thinking

…..
Driving in my car, I see the outside passing by, some things pass fast and others much slower= seeing
I feel the hardness and slight stickiness of the steering wheel, feel my back and legs on the seat = touching
I can taste the remnants of the coffee I drank a minute or 2 ago = tasting
The sounds of the engine and other cars passing by = hearing
Smelling cut hedge as I pass a hedge cutting tractor = smelling
Sensing the whole Earth below me and the sky above me, then imagining the earth in Space and how little space me and my car take up within it = thinking

I will continue on with this and post more soon, please let me know if I have done what you asked !

X

[Anastacia42]

Close enough. We don't need all of that description
Just a short phrase.

Here's the next part. You can fix it there.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? It is there. Look for sensation, particularly in your gut.

Loving,

[Honeysuckle]

Hi Stacy,

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second version seems more direct and truer than the “I” version

What is here without labels?

My best answer is sensational phenomena

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Describe it

Did you notice any differences in the body? It is there. Look for sensation, particularly in your gut

Yes. Usual tension in the body in the 1st session. More like waiting and allowing things to arise to describe in the 2nd session, calmer somehow

With love x

[Anastacia42]

Yes all good. You've got it. To go a little further...

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies. I'm sure I've talked about this.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Honeysuckle]

Hi Stacy,

Do you see that?

Yes very clearly. When I recall the lie my whole body tenses up, my heart beats faster and feels contracted and tight, my stomach churns.