Today

[Elisabethann]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? That there is no self , no I and that all are perceptions

What are you looking for at LU? Learning to embody the concept of no I. Finding insignes and really understanding and see this. I have read a lot about it but did not experienced it. I am reading buddism literature and i think this is a stepping stone to buddism or part of this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Give me tools to experience the ‘no self’. To help me look directly at experience to see whether a separate self exists. Guide me through this process untill i feel that I have tools enough to go my own path

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I study mindfullness, compassion and buddism for 4 years now.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Elad]

Hello! I am a guide here at LU. I'd be happy to work with you. Are you ready to start? What may I call you?

[Elisabethann]

Dear Elad, yes i am ready and you may call me Elisa. Warm regards.

[Elad]

Lovely to meet you Elisa!

Before we start, if you haven'y already, please read the following three documents. If you have any questions or reservations to them, talk to me about it before going any further.

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Disclaimer

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

And finally, The LU Terms and Conditions

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/


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If you don't have any questions or reservations to the above, continue to this first "exercise":



Read the following sentence out loud several times:

There is no separate self, no controller and doer of things, never was, never will be

Every time you read it out loud notice what happens, what reactions come up, thoughts, feelings, sensations...

Write me what emerges.

Don't try to get it right, just share what actually is felt and seen. In general the core of the process is always what you directly experience, the direct responses to prompts and exercises. This is always the core, seeing and reporting as directly as possible.

Please always respond to questions and prompts written in blue.

And generally write me anything that feels important to you, questions, feedback, insights, feelings that come up in relation to this process and our exchange. Attending to direct experience (as opposed to thinking about it), sharing with full honesty, and the desire for truth are the main drivers of this process.

Lets go :)

[Elisabethann]

Dear Elad,
What I experience is that I mostly have questions after reading the sentence out loud. The first thing that catches my attention is that there is no separate self. What is meant by “separate”? Is it an independent self, one that stands on its own? And if not, is there then a self that is integrated?

The next thing that raises many questions for me is that there is no controller. I myself followed a program based on AA, and that’s strongly what I’m reminded of. There I learned that I should not try to keep things “under control” and that I should take things as they are—then the problems will disappear on their own. This is more of an association than a question. Because of that program, I already understand that by trying to control things, I actually create more problems. I don’t yet completely understand how it works when I “let everything go”; that is still difficult.

I don’t have questions about other experiences that arise in me.

Best,
Elisa

[Elad]

Hi Elisa,

So, this reaction of "lots of questions" where does it come from?

I am not asking you to think about that, I am asking you to look. Like read the sentence more times.

Whatever reactions come, just notice and also look: where do they come from?

Actually, do it with this sentence instead:

There is no self, no doer, no responsible one, never was, never will be

As for your AA experience, that is gonna be helpful. At the same time, here I am not asking you to "let go of control" or "believe you don't have control". I am asking you to look and discover in direct experience if there is a controller-you or not.

[Elisabethann]

Dear Elad,
What first comes to mind for me is that they come from thinking, so from the rational mind that tries to explain them. The next thing that comes to mind when I read your new sentence is that if there is no doer or self, then everything I do is “directed” or “initiated” by something external. And thank you for the explanation about the AA experience.
Best,
Elisa

[Elad]

Hi Elisa, so we need to do some work shifting from "thinking about" questions to looking.


Here is an analogy to give a sense of the difference:


Coloured Socks

There is a big difference between thinking about what is there and directly experiencing what is there.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

•⁠ ⁠You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

•⁠ ⁠Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be certain by looking.

For this process to work, it's very important that you're clear about this difference. “Thinking about” is all in the mind, interpretations, beliefs, fears and hopes, and we are not interested in that, in the work we do here. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually there in your present moment to moment experience. We are looking only in what is directly available: sight, sound, sensations, smell, taste and the movement of thought, the experience of thoughts appearing and disappearing (but NOT the content of thoughts, that is not direct experience).

Let me know if this distinction makes sense.


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The following exercise serves to deepen this clarity.


Sit quietly and relax. Take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile, look around in the space you are in.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labeling every thing into objects and then embellishing these objects with stories about what they are and spontaneous associations.

Give it some time.

Then, stop watching the objects as labeled objects. Just experience the seeing itself. Experience the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE).

Write me your experience in doing this

[Elad]

Ps. You don't need to mark your text in blue. The blue is for me to mark the questions and prompts for you to answer.

Also, please watch the following video about the "quote function". Please quote the questions, prompts or other aspects of my texts you are responding to, so it is easy to follow.

Here it is:

https://youtu.be/QCbZYSvnTpc?si=oHbn6uci7EU_fH2w

[Elisabethann]

Dear Elad,

I have done the exercises and this is my experience and response.

Let me know if this distinction makes sense.

Yes, I understand that I have to experience things without engaging with their meaning.

Write me your experience in doing this

The direct experience exercise was very interesting. First, I looked at the Christmas tree and described its shape, its colour, and where I had bought it. I looked at the TV and the material it is made of, and I looked at the cabinet underneath it, describing its material, colour, and history.

Then I looked at these three objects without doing that—just looking—and I observed what arose in me. It helped not to search for meaning but only for the experience. What I experienced was that I kept looking (especially at the Christmas tree) much longer than in the first exercise. The glitter and the lights had a gentle and pleasant effect on me. It made me feel happy.

I continued to see the sparkle when I looked at the TV (in the plastic edges) and then when I looked at the cabinet underneath it. Everything seemed to shine, which was beautiful, also because I had never seen it that way before.

Best,
Elisa

[Elad]

Wonderful Eliza,

Here is another exercise to deepen this initial clarity, that will be important in this whole process:

Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities

Do this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply: sight, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply = sight
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories as you go through your day (which are all actual/direct experience).

Afterwards, write me examples of doing this this in real time, like the examples above, use the same structure ("description of experience", simply = "name of sense gate/category").

And write me what else was experienced practicing with this for a day.