Is it possible to see this?

[vinceschubert]

Do you see one in any way, shape or form ?

[xyzzy]

Do you see one in any way, shape or form ?

No, but this doesn't seem to matter. The belief in a me goes on.

[vinceschubert]

Can you see a story ABOUT a you ?

The belief in a me goes on.

Hang on tight to that. Don't relax your grip whatever happens. (seriously) Examine how you are holding it.

[xyzzy]

Can you see a story ABOUT a you ?

There's a feeling that there's a me here which has a body and a life and experiences and so on, that I am some sort of object which is here. An invisible object which can't be found anywhere, of course.

It's not really a feeling, it seems to be more a knowing. I suppose it's actually a belief.

The belief in a me goes on.

Hang on tight to that. Don't relax your grip whatever happens. (seriously) Examine how you are holding it.[/quote]

I don't know how to hang on to a belief.

[vinceschubert]

I suppose it's actually a belief.

That flowed nicely. Just to formalize it, would you agree that beliefs are what make up stories ? ...and so arrive at point where you can see a story of you ?

I don't know how to hang on to a belief.

very good. A belief is either there or not there. It can't be held onto, or let go of.
A belief can, however, be Seen for what it is. A Story. (or not seen)
A story could be true or not true. There is no way to tell, but what can be experienced is the existence of the story and awareness that the content of the story is the stuff of thought and as such of no relevance. The story of you is just that an ever changing story, updated by opinion and judgement.
Before thought, before reality gets distorted by the intrusion of thoughts, a pure, direct, experiencing IS.
We don't need to stop thought. That is impossible. But we can see them, and once seen that a story exists and is triggered by something, it will weaken or even completely evaporate. Stories fall apart when seen directly. They are similar to the stuff of dreams. They seem reasonable while being 'acted out' but once awake they are recognized as being improbable.

[xyzzy]

I suppose it's actually a belief.

That flowed nicely. Just to formalize it, would you agree that beliefs are what make up stories ? ...and so arrive at point where you can see a story of you ?

I don't know what you mean by "stories". I think you're using the word in some specialized way, different from the usual meaning of the word.

As to seeing that I am just a story, as always, I see it intellectually, but I don't feel it.

[vinceschubert]

I don't know what you mean by "stories".

Stories are a collection of thoughts about a subject. They are lots of concepts, grouped for convenience and combining to create a complex, detailed word (usually) picture. The story of you includes what you have experienced and remember, what others have told you about how you were before you remember. It includes beliefs you hold about what kind of a person you think you are. etc etc.

As to seeing that I am just a story

No, you are not just a story. You are something unexplainable, beyond words, something expressing the great mystery of life. What you used to believe you were, turns out to be just a story.
Does this resonate with you ?

[xyzzy]

As to seeing that I am just a story

No, you are not just a story. You are something unexplainable, beyond words, something expressing the great mystery of life. What you used to believe you were, turns out to be just a story.
Does this resonate with you ?

Not really, no. There is this experience, which is generally not all that interesting, and there's a sense of me, which is some thing that needs to be taken care of and looked out for, which stresses me out.

[vinceschubert]

and there's a sense of me, which is some thing that needs to be taken care of and looked out for

...and you can't see that this is a story ?

which stresses me out.

...and that this is a response to that story ?

[xyzzy]

and there's a sense of me, which is some thing that needs to be taken care of and looked out for

...and you can't see that this is a story ?

which stresses me out.

...and that this is a response to that story ?

Yes, that is a reasonable word for it. But the thing is, I only know this intellectually, I don't feel it, and knowing it doesn't change anything.

[vinceschubert]

I only know this intellectually, I don't feel it, and knowing it doesn't change anything.

In your head, as intellectual knowledge, it is useless. But there's no reason to keep it there. All you need to do is to consider how it ACTUALLY impacts on Experiencing. SEE experiencing, then SEE the story changing it.
Everything that you are Experiencing now, is reality. Everything before the story, is reality. Everything after the story is reality. It's the content of the story that there is reaction to, which means that the Experiencing after the story became involved, though still reality, has flavours to it that the reaction to the content of the story, brought to it. This is where suffering starts.
Can you see that ?

[xyzzy]

I only know this intellectually, I don't feel it, and knowing it doesn't change anything.

In your head, as intellectual knowledge, it is useless. But there's no reason to keep it there. All you need to do is to consider how it ACTUALLY impacts on Experiencing. SEE experiencing, then SEE the story changing it.
Everything that you are Experiencing now, is reality. Everything before the story, is reality. Everything after the story is reality. It's the content of the story that there is reaction to, which means that the Experiencing after the story became involved, though still reality, has flavours to it that the reaction to the content of the story, brought to it. This is where suffering starts.
Can you see that ?

I can see that there is a sense of me being here (as some sort of invisible object which is in my body somewhere), and that this sense of me causes feelings of stress as it has to be worried about and taken care of and so on. Seeing this doesn't change anything, though.

Intellectually, I see the self as being just a belief. It doesn't feel like a belief, though, it feels like there is a knowing that this me is here.

[vinceschubert]

a sense of me

This needs examination.
When you say a "sense" of.. are you talking stuff of the senses. Are there sensations associated with it ?
Is it of the mind ? Thoughts ?
"a sense of me" implies some sort of fuzzy, undefined, shadow with a convenient label attached...
Please tell me the fruits of your investigation.

[xyzzy]

a sense of me

This needs examination.
When you say a "sense" of.. are you talking stuff of the senses. Are there sensations associated with it ?
Is it of the mind ? Thoughts ?
"a sense of me" implies some sort of fuzzy, undefined, shadow with a convenient label attached...
Please tell me the fruits of your investigation.

I've already talked about this before multiple times (although I can't remember how many of them were in this thread, or other threads I've been in in the past). It feels like there's a knowing that I am here, that there is a me here. It's not a physical sensation or an emotion. Intellectually I can say, ok, this is just a belief, but it doesn't feel like a belief. It feels like I know that I am here, that I am some sort of thing which is here and which has a past and a future and a body and a life and so on.

I feel like we're going around in circles on this, because I already understand all about this intellectually, so I'm not going to learn anything new about any of this in that way. If it's possible to see that there is no me in some other way besides intellectually, I can't seem to find it.

[vinceschubert]

If it's possible to see that there is no me in some other way besides intellectually, I can't seem to find it.

It definitely wont happen intellectually.
Would it be accurate to say that all of the questions in all of the threads, you have considered intellectually and arrived at an intellectual answer ?
i have 'felt' you to be close on several occasions. Is it possible that when you get close, that something (fear?) pulls you back to a safe intellectual 'position' ?