Through the gateless gate

[vandyand]

Hello

Thank you for sharing those links. I've been "just looking" over the past few days. According to the article this is the optimal pointer due to its simplicity. When I try to just LOOK there is much to be seen and no "I" seen anywhere but there is always this assumption that the "I" must simply be somewhere I can't see right now (like behind these eyes, where it's impossible to see it) and though I can't see this assumption I can feel it, and it's not like a traditional contraction it seems. It's unclear what to do with this assumption - how to dissolve it etc. So I've just been living with it but it yields suffering as it were. It seems like a selfing protection mechanism or something.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

seems like a selfing protection mechanism or something.

Where, exactly, do you find that in Direct Experience?

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

"If it hurts, you're lying."

~Byron Katie

Loving,

[vandyand]

Well it's odd, it's just a feeling that comes and goes. I suppose I'm overcomplicating it by labeling it? Like today it wasn't around much, but then some days it's around a lot - that is, the feeling of this self-existence assumption. If I had to describe it in direct experience it's like a feeling of drowning kind of, or what it seems like drowning would feel like, and it just makes me want to scream inside, which I often do. Though other times it all seems rather silly in sort of an unfortunate way.

I don't know, the more I learn the less I know, but then, who is this "I"?

It often seems still that there is nothing to write. Writing is so weird. It's like, all of writing is just content of thoughts, but then, aren't we supposed to ignore content of thoughts? But then maybe it's like that zen principle of using a thorn to remove other thorns or something. Though whenever I do write it seems easier to see that "I" don't exist and this is all just happening. I guess part of my hangup is that when selfless existence is seen more clearly there comes a whirlwind of questions which are very distracting which distract me. Or I guess that's just a story? If "I" don't exist is it ok that I keep talking about myself? What is the basis of existence if I don't exist? Does it matter? What is matter? Does anything matter? Does it matter that nothing matters? Instantly we're in a rhelm of inconceivable paradox and...??? I mean, I guess all this is fine. But what does that mean? It seems I have a great propensity for tying myself up in knots... which of course can't be true because I don't exits...

I apologize for all the thought content... I'm just trying to write and then all this stuff comes out. I know it's not just looking right? But it's just what's coming out so I hope that's ok. It all brings up feelings of melancholy.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Andrew,

"feeling of drowning" is a label.

Not to make light of your story, but "melancholy" is a label.

Nothing you wrote was Direct Experience.

Please go back to the beginning & te-read your thread.

Have you read any of "Gateless Gatecrashers,?" Some of that may help.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Are you still there?

There will always be awareness. But that is not a "self.

How are you doing with your "knots?"

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

Yes, still here :)

"feeling of drowning" is a label. "melancholy" is a label.

This is true, but then isn't every word technically a "label"? Like saying "I see computer" - "I" is a label, "see" is a label, "computer" is a label. Heck, even "label" is a label correct? In which case, why are some labels better/truer than others? Like, why is it better to say "I feel contraction sensation" than to say "I feel like I'm drowning"? It seems a bit arbitrary. Maybe the drowning terminology is more abstract and thus less true somehow? Direct experience terminology is fine but if it feels "truer" to use other labels to describe experience then... I don't understand why that's sub-optimal. But maybe my ego is just being stubborn on this or something? Or I'm just making more rationalizations which are distracting and counter-productive?

All this to say there seems to be some tension here when writing, in knowing how to express these experiences.

In general though, right now there are direct experiences of fingers on keyboard, seeing computer screen, seeing coffee mug, seeing pneumatic and electrical components of this machine being worked on, seeing boxes, feeling back-against-chair sensation, etc. Also there is currently less dark-contraction-sensation-thing than "normal" which feels good (though "good" probably isn't direct experience...), how do I say this? There is a feeling of a lack of contraction in my head/back - or, there is a feeling of greater openness in the head/back area, which if I were to label as good or bad I would label as good.

Thanks for your patience with me :)
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Yes, Andrew, all words are lies. But we have to use something & this works.

I'm just making more rationalizations which are distracting and counter-productive?

Yes. You are stuck in thinking. Stop that.

Read this, please.

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/res ... r-seeker/

Watch this.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hey Stacy

I re-read and re-listened to those resources.

I don’t want a dialogue with you!

Don’t be offended by that.

While a dialogue may help you to UNDERSTAND what’s being said, that understanding isn’t what’s going to get this done.

With the solution being to "Just Look". So I've been just looking and I think it's working ok. There were some expectations here of a dramatic shift but that hasn't happened so then there's some doubt as to whether "I'm doing it correctly" which seems silly but the doubt is there. Also the "selfing" hasn't really changed that much, it's just that it's not believed as much anymore.

Sometimes it seems more helpful for me to "Just Feel" which is not opposed to just looking, perhaps supplemental. Both are direct experience obviously.

It's a bit funny what the youtube guy says about needing desire to see. It seems like part of the seeing process is a dissolution of desire in general - at least desire for "not this" which was so predominant.

All this to say it seems like progress is being made, with illusions dissolving slowly, though still it seems not completely gone because there are times when the "selfing belief" sneaks back in and suddenly there it is again from time to time. It helps to not try to fight it or resist it which ironically only strengthens it, and instead welcome it and give it a home as it were to dissolve into.

It seems there is some disappointment here from the lack of "fireworks" as it were, which disappointment seems quite silly but there it is. It feels kind of like the ending of a movie that you wish would go on cause the story is so good (though why this feels this way is beyond me considering the suffering). Even this description is not direct experience though. It seems impossible to articulate this experience in words. It's closely related to the melancholy that has been here for some time. Nostalgia? Again, just labels of course.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

I suspect the melancholy is because you want things to be different than what they are. That is the definition of sadness. Arguing with reality.

Yes, you can do any of the 5 senses. Yes, you can just feel As long as you don't label the Sensation or give it a story.

"Self" is only Sensation (a contraction or lie) plus a label and/or story.

Hope that helps

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hello Stacy

Another update. I apologize, I know I said I'd update more frequently and now it's been four days already!

There has been a lot of looking going on recently - especially looking/feeling into this identity sensation of "Andrew-ness" or "me-ness" as it were. Funny enough there is nothing concrete in direct experience to point to as "me". Instead it appears that there is what I would call "desire for love" or just "love" here in general which feels almost like this background heavy silent source or presence. This direct experience seems impossible to put into words, but when it is experienced there is nothing else - like this is all there is, in a very good way.

I don't want to sound like I've got anything "figured out". Perhaps there still some expectation about what "the awakening experience" should be like that needs further dissolution. I say this because while the underlying heavy stillness is always present there still seem to be often distracting thoughs/emotions/beliefs which obfuscate the experience of the "background love" as it were, though moments of clarity are very encouraging and seem to be slowly becoming more frequent and enduring.

Also, I've started going through the Course in Miracles workbook again. I completed half of it last year and thought it would be nice to go through the second half. So far I've really enjoyed it. I know it's not a "slam dunk" awakening text or anything, but it seems helpful, particularly because of my traditional Christian upbringing (more stories again! sorry :) ).

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

underlying heavy stillness

And what did you learn that a heavy contraction sensation is?

I wanted to post a link to that pointer but this site is having trouble.

Loving

[vandyand]

And what did you learn that a heavy contraction sensation is?

A lie. It's a sensation + a thought label. So then in the end there's just direct experience. No one to feel or do anything and nothing that needs doing.

[Anastacia42]

True.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Have you had any shift in perception?

Loving,

[vandyand]

How does it FEEL to see this?

It feels weird when this is seen, like it's still difficult to fully embrace... but then who's embracing?

Have you had any shift in perception?

Perhaps in a minor way things seem a bit more vibrant.

There are still some sensations in the head and neck which still feel strongly associated with identity thoughts which are being felt. Also when talking with other people there is often a contraction with identity thoughts (like "I am me and you are you and we're talking to each other and looking at one another").

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Hi Andrew,

weird

"Weird " is content of thought, a label, made up. not true, not "real."

Please report only things a body can feel: heavy, light, hot, cold, contraction, expansion, & things like that
.

more vibrant.

Okay. How do you See, Hear, Feel, Taste or Smell this? "Vibrant" is another label. Maybe I know what is meant. Maybe I don't.

sensations in the head... contraction

Good! That's Direct Experience.

Loving,