Through the gateless gate

[vandyand]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Like several of the case studies in the Gateless Gatecrashers book, I feel I have an intellectual assent to the fact that "I" doesn't exist, yet "I" feel there are certain sticky associations which seem to be proving difficult to dissolve/see through.

What are you looking for at LU?
Liberation, freedom from the dis-ease experienced as part of relating as a self. The simplicity of existence and the dissolution of nagging thoughts and feelings that "I" should be or need to be something other than what "I" seem to currently be.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
"I" expect more rapid progress and less regressions with tailor-fit guided counseling. Many of the case studies in the Gateless Gatecrashers book seem to have benefited greatly from these conversations and I'd like to experience this.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Grew up Christian. Identify more as a Christian mystic at this point after consuming several non-duality books and the excellent "A Course in Miracles"

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Hi.

I was an ACIM student for 25 years until I woke up. Welcome.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hope you see this in time.

This Sunday. 6 to 8 pm UTC +4 Mauritius Time

Deep looking is for you if you have an ongoing issue that makes you feel stuck, if you are looking for peace but cannot find it, if your heart is longing for something deep and meaningful, but nothing satisfies that longing.

Come to a meeting with a small group and we can explore together, giving space for tension to unwind.

You can use the old link, that you have or email me at admin@ilonaciunaite.com and I will send it to you.

See you there! (Ilona)
✨❤️✨

[Anastacia42]

Do you still want to be guided here?

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

I apologize for the delay! I was under the impressions correspondence was over email and didn't log in to the forum until earlier today. I'm working now so I'll keep it short and plan on messaging in greater length later. I just wanted to say that I'm still definitely want to be guided if you're still up for it.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Great. Welcome back.

You should be receiving emails saying that something was posted, with a link to come here to the forum.

There is a wrench icon where you "subscribe." So if it says "unsubscribe," you are subscribed (because the only action you can take is to unsubscribed.) If that's not the case, click it so that it says "unsubscribe."

OR

There is a check box at the bottom that says "Notify me when a reply is posted." You can make sure that is checked.

Thanks,
Stacy

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy.

How will life change?

I imagine it will remain relatively unchanged except perhaps less of a burdensome nagging “thought program” in the background replaying thoughts of doom and gloom (which becomes very tiresome after awhile!). Perhaps a sense of peace? From reading the Gateless Gatecrashers book it seems reactions are varied and rather unpredictable and it’s important to harbor no unwarranted expectations.

How will you change?

Becoming non-existent? More like realizing “I” never existed except as a belief which has been seen through.

What will be different?

See answer 1. I imagine things will remain relatively the same. Though I suppose there is a deep hope and anticipation of knowing the truth more fully.

What is missing?

I can say nothing is missing right now, though at times I cannot say this. In this way it appears I’m at the “gateless gate” but maybe not through? Or perhaps this is just an unexamined expectation showing up. I say “at times I cannot say this” because rather regularly I’ll fall into, or go through, periods of acute melancholy fueled by negative thoughts about myself. Presumably this melancholy will be somewhat alleviated by the recognition of no self (no self to have negative thoughts about).

What would you like for me to call you?

Andrew suffices

What time zone are you in?

I’m in Eastern Daylight Time Zone (Grand Rapids, MI)

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Hi Andrew,

Becoming non-existent? More like realizing “I” never existed except as a belief which has been seen through.

Well, you're not going to disappear in a puff of smoke. There's already no self, so yes, pretty much nothing changes & everything changes.

The melancholy may or may not change. Recognizing there is (already) no "self" is just the beginning. There will be plenty to unravel. The Work of Byron Katie is very good for this. I did a lot of that & it was very helpful.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you for the recommendation. I will make sure to look into that.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Very little comes up at reading this, perhaps because I’ve read it before and intellectually assent to it? I guess the belief in “my story” is not fully dissolved though cause I’m still searching for “liberation” whatever that is. As you said

pretty much nothing changes & everything changes

and I suppose I’m after that everything changing part. This question is difficult to answer because intellectually I suppose this answer is just another part of my story which I’m not supposed to believe in? On the other hand it feels good knowing there is no separate self because that means in some way everything is ok.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Hi Andrew,

I suppose I’m after that everything changing part.

If you are after that, you may have already seen there is no self. There is still plenty to do after that, but then seeking does end.

Watch these, please & tell me where you think you are:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

Thank you for the video suggestions. I found them helpful but also a little confusing. This whole process seems confusing at times (which was mentioned in the video, so maybe no surprise). Ilona said awakening is a process of expansion and contraction and the OneSpaciousness lady said awareness oscillates between waking and sleeping. This kind of feels like the state I’m in though it seems sleepiness predominates with a few brief moments of awakeness interposed.

If you are after that, you may have already seen there is no self. There is still plenty to do after that, but then seeking does end

I feel as though seeking has not ended for me yet, though intellectually I assent to the fact that there is no one to seek anything. Ilona said when awakening comes seeking ends but exploration continues. Which is fine I suppose but I wonder who’s exploring at that point? The universe exploring itself? That’s fine, it just doesn’t seem to be my current experience. I suppose I’m using a lot of “I” and “me” language which Ilona talks about in the Gateless Gatecrashers book being a construct of language with no real entity being referenced which is fine. If the awakening process is the process of rediscovering and or recognizing “no self” then who/what is awakening? If “I” doesn’t exist then what does exist? Just the “universe” or the “oneness” experiencing itself? God playing hide and seek with himself? These are all questions that come up but they don’t seem answerable or maybe even beneficial… but all these questions lead me to believe I’m still seeking something (like the answers to these questions). It’s odd because from various readings and life experience it seems there is somewhat of a grasp or inclination of the answers but at the same time they seem elusive. I read in ACIM today (I’m going through the workbook having finished the book, I hope this is ok) (I’m on lesson 169 “By grace I live. By grace I am released”), which says “We say ‘God is,’ and then we cease to speak, for in that knowledge words are meaningless.” Perhaps that’s the final “answer”.

I suppose all these questions feel rather like energetic contractions which I often forget to let go of so they remain indefinitely until I read my ACIM lesson or write to you or remember “the truth” and experience hints of clarity and freedom. I should add, I’ve been going through the MindBloom treatment program (https://www.mindbloom.com/) for depression and anxiety and I feel it’s been (and continues to be) helpful. It’s relatively easy to “remember” the spacious oneness when I’m in a ketamine session.

Also, I should add, I grew up as a Presbyterian preacher’s kid which has colored my perspective in certain ways. It was a “good” upbringing in terms of material goods but not a lot of love felt and lots of judgmentalism. I don’t know if it’s helpful to share all this or not. I guess “my story” isn’t really real because it’s in the past which doesn’t actually exist? But if I experience the memories in the present then presumably they’re “real” in that sense and if these memories are causing contractions presently then presumably I haven’t let them go yet. My relationship with my Dad is rather strained at this point because of all the “seeking” I’ve been doing outside of orthodox reformed theology. But then Jesus says “Wisdom is known by its fruit” and “Seek and you shall find”.

The OneSpaciousness lady said awakening is like being in a dark room with little light rays periodically shining in, until one awakes and it’s like the lights are turned on and one realizes the lights were on the whole time, they just thought it was dark. Yet feelings of darkness are still present all around me almost all the time which leads me to believe I’m not “awake” in that sense yet. It would be great to have a dramatic “awakening” experience but I know not to expect this because everyone’s story is unique.

I hope this post isn’t too long. It’s helpful to get all this down. I intuit I’m on the right trajectory because life has slowly been improving and “awake” experiences are becoming more common in general, though still rather disparate I would say. It’s a bit odd to me because this community is called “Liberation Unleashed” which implies I’m seeking liberation by my presence here but seeking ends when liberation is achieved… Am I supposed to “explore” liberation instead of “seeking” it? Perhaps I’m confusing things with all these questions but now at least you have a little peek inside my tempestuous thought patterns. Don’t get blown away! :)

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Andrew, your post isn't too long, but it's just a bunch of the thought content we are ignoring!

Go back & re-look at Colored Socks.

Focus on the 5 senses. Notice that Thought Arises. but IGNORE what it is saying. This is Direct Looking.

You've mentioned ACIM, depression & ketamine.

ACIM is okay. I did it for 25 years. I've never met anyone who woke up that way.

Depression is just believing the lies your thoughts tell you.

Ketamine? Drugs? I can see why you *think* you need it. I've never used it & don't really know much about it. I'm not against drugs, but as far as I can tell they're not necessary - at least, for me.

All of these can distract & interfere with following the guiding & doing these pointers. We asked in the Waivers & Disclaimers that you focus only on LU. This is to avoid confusion & distraction.

May be you want to handle your depression with those & come back here later? We do not treat depression here.

Let me know.

Loving,

[vandyand]

Hey Stacy

Notice that Thought Arises. but IGNORE what it is saying

This has been helpful. Thank you.

There is desire to continue being guided here but also some confusion what to write. Must I stop ACIM, depression and ketamine in order to continue here? I know the Waivers & Disclaimers asked to focus only on LU but they also mentioned that it's fine to continue a meditation practice which I consider ACIM to be. Also, LU asks for complete honesty which is what I was trying to communicate in my last post.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Anastacia42]

Hi Andrew,

I was an ACIM student for 25 years. Yes, it's meditation. Can't hurt. but I've never met anyone who saw there was no self with it.

Depression is simply a result of believing untrue thoughts.

Ketamine? I have no idea. I cannot advise you at all about that.

I can continue to guide you. Just be sure these things aren't distracting you or getting in the way.

Much love

[vandyand]

Hi Stacy

I'll be careful to not let these things distract me. What's next?

Thanks,
Andrew