Hi, guide needed:-)

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter,

So do you agree that most of what we usually call reality and don't usually question is actually a mental construct?

I am getting see it.

Good! :-) Keep investigating in your everyday life. Keep comparing raw, direct experience, with the mental constructs the mind creates.

Of course looking at a thing can give to arise an emotion, but how seeing happens, it is not felt...

So the seeing is happening efortlessly and emotions are arising efortlessly without a need for a separate you to make any of it happen. Do you agree? Do you see it?

I am seeing things that are separate from each other, they have different colors, shapes, they are in a space (in a room), some of them are close to me and some of them are far from me. ...it is how I am seeing now.

Is space experienced or is it mental interpretation? Space exists because there is perception of something apparently solid, apparently separate. If there were no "things", no matter, would there be space?

Choose any object in your room and look at it for a few minutes. Just look. Where does the object end and where does space begin?

Is there any change in your perception of the solidity of the object after you've been looking at it for a while?

It is interesting with hearing. It is experienced like there is no head, no inside, no outside. The inside/outside is seen only as a mental construct.

Exactly! Very good noticing.Do you think this inside/outside mental construct is similar to space vs. "things"?

Now close your eyes and this time focus on tactile experience. Is it happening inside or outside?

Enjoy your weekend! x

[PeterCs]

Hi, hi:-)

So the seeing is happening efortlessly and emotions are arising efortlessly without a need for a separate you to make any of it happen. Do you agree? Do you see it?

Yes, agree. Yes, see it.

Is space experienced or is it mental interpretation? Space exists because there is perception of something apparently solid, apparently separate. If there were no "things", no matter, would there be space?

Choose any object in your room and look at it for a few minutes. Just look. Where does the object end and where does space begin?

Is there any change in your perception of the solidity of the object after you've been looking at it for a while?
Do you think this inside/outside mental construct is similar to space vs. "things"?

I did the experiment. I was not able to find where the object ends and where space begins. It seemed to me that object is space as well. The thing had its shape, color, but it was not possible to consider it as a something separate. I mean for example the statement: „This here is an object. Everything on left/right/up/down/front/back side of that object is space. Only that is the space.“ seems to be untrue. Or in other words, having an empty room and the same room full of furniture, it is the same space.

...this „room“ space seems to be only a mental construct, because when I talk about space or try to see it, mind, imagination begins to operate. Your question: „If there were no "things", no matter, would there be space?“ If I imagine it as a white „something“ without any things, shadows, colors... I think I would not see „that something“ as space.

Now close your eyes and this time focus on tactile experience. Is it happening inside or outside?

It is only experienced and can be located, but no as an inside or no as an outside experience. I did an experiment. With the right index finger I touched a thing. I pointed with the left index finder in that direction/place where I „thought“ the experience was happening and it was quite correct.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hello Charlie,

I was away from my computer all day yesterday and this is the first chance I get to write a reply properly.

I did the experiment. I was not able to find where the object ends and where space begins. It seemed to me that object is space as well.

Or we could say the space is object? (Mind-object) :-)

"Form is only emptiness, emptiness is only form" Does this resonate with your experience? Form and space exist only in mind as sides of the same coin. Do you agree?

...this „room“ space seems to be only a mental construct, because when I talk about space or try to see it, mind, imagination begins to operate. Your question: „If there were no "things", no matter, would there be space?“ If I imagine it as a white „something“ without any things, shadows, colors... I think I would not see „that something“ as space.

Exactly! Would you say space exists only as mental concept as opposed to "some thing" that appears to be "solid" and separate?

Good looking Peter. It sounds like you're really starting to see the difference between raw direct experience and the mental construct that we normally call reality. We are not trying to get rid of it, it has it's function, just see it for what it is.

Perhaps you're starting to get a sense that things are not as solid, fixed an separate as they seem? Keep investigating this in your own time as you go about your day, or when you have a moment to sit and just look.

For example, Is there such a thing as solid, liquid or gaseous? Are these real qualities "things" have, or is it all relative to this body?

As I lean on the table to type, there is an undeniable sensation that's labelled as solid, and the arm stays on top of the desk, and to date I've been unable to pass through walls, but does that mean they are solid? or is solid just a label to describe an experience of the body coming into contact with wall or desk?


So, there is direct experience, which the mind then classifies and labels, creating an inside/outside, here/there, object/space etc.. and this is very handy in everyday life, but once we start scratching the surface, assumptions and beliefs in that constructed reality begin to crumble down.

Can you find a you that is doing any of this, or is it all happening on its own?

At this point, what do you think the self is? How does it operate? Can you find this self anywhere other than in thought/imagination?

Much love x

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

I will reply on your questions tomorrow.

One thing to share now. I was just lying in the bath, looking at a shampoon container and asking how do I know that it is solid? ...you know what I mean? The answer came from memory - from this morning experience when I touched the container. But that memory is only memory, it is like an assumption now and it is believed in.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

:-) Yes, that's right! And isn't it handy to have this kind of memory? I'd imagine it would be impossible to even feed ourselves without it! And yet.. does memory = reality? And is there as separate self in control of memories and thoughts?

xxx

[PeterCs]

Memory is more like an assumption. And I agree, it is very very useful:-) No separate self in control of memories. They are "created" spontaneously and they come up when it is needed like a help from nothing:-) No one controls them.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Good!

I enjoyed reading this comic and the first part seems quite pertinent to our last posts. It's very funny too!

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/mantis_shrimp

Which reality do you think is the "right" one. The dog's, ours, the butterfly's or the shrimp's'?

I bet their reality looks nothing like "our" reality. So which reality is more real? :-) The shrimp's because it sees more colors? The dog's because it has a finer sense of smell? Ours, because we are self-aware?

And where is this self that is aware? or is there just awareness?

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

thanks for the comic:-)

Which reality do you think is the "right" one. The dog's, ours, the butterfly's or the shrimp's'?
...
So which reality is more real?

All of them are right, only the perception happens in different ways. It seems to me that everything what exists is real, only the story, label of that can be misleading.

And where is this self that is aware? or is there just awareness?

The self still seems to be "located" in the head. ...because of thinking happening there. Intelectually I know it is not true, but it is still not seen that "I", "me", "self" is only a thought. ...right now, hearing is happening, sounds are heard and...not sure now. I would like to say there is a witness present, but it does not seem to be 100% sure.

Hearing is happening effortlesly. It is experienced. 100% sure. What/who is aware of that? - ...here I am stuck, because no one has been found and there is that claimning "I" "thing".

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

The self still seems to be "located" in the head. ...because of thinking happening there.

So there is an "self" inside your head and this "self"makes thoughts happen?

x

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

it seems so, but also it is noticed that many thoughts come and go.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Can this you control which thoughts happen and which don't?

[PeterCs]

No, but it seems I can react on the thoughts. I mean for example when an upleasant thought comes up with a unpleasant feeling, I can react in a way - I will eat something sweet or I will listen to a loud music. ...it is like chasing the good feelings and looking only for them.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Do you make any thoughts happen?

[PeterCs]

What do you mean with "...to make thoughts happen"? I am not sure if I understand it correctly.

There is a sense of "I am thinking". For example, there are several issues at my work and "I am thinking" how to solve them - what to do, how to do, who to contact, imagine the ideal solution and so on. There is a feeling/sensation of the doer who is doing something.

[PeterCs]

At this moment I am not able to accept that everything is happening spontaneously. If it was true, it would mean that there is nothing to do and I could put an end to all. ...or I could do everything what I want, to be rude, arogant, agressive... and say that I am not responsible for that. The only responsible is life itself, I am not, let me be. You know what I mean?

That is what happening right now and I wanted to share it with you. It seems to be quite strong resistance, but perhaps it could be helpful now.