Feeling stuck and looking for guidance

[Alless]

A couple of things Chii

There is the direct experience of thoughts, the contents being the concepts, appearing in awareness.

Which is true....
thoughts appear in awareness or
awareness appearing as thought?

The sense of self is also formed by this same mechanism of belief. It is made up of the direct experience of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thoughts and is also appearing awareness

Look again ....... does direct experience depend on a sense of self in any way?



Here is a clue ......
Does direct experience depend on perception in any way?




What is perception?




Does perception have any bearing on a sense of self?




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[chii]

Which is true....
thoughts appear in awareness or
awareness appearing as thought?

I see how awareness as a container for direct experience was just another belief.
It is awareness appearing as thought.

Look again ....... does direct experience depend on a sense of self in any way?

No

Does direct experience depend on perception in any way?

No

What is perception?

Perception is the labelling of direct experience.

Does perception have any bearing on a sense of self?

The sense of self appears to arise with perception. There must be a perceiver for there to be perception.

[Alless]

There must be a perceiver for there to be perception.

That's a very definite statement Chii. You say that there "must be a perceiver" I'm really interested in this perspective
Please describe the attributes of this perceiver that you say must be there.




Did this come from direct investigation or is it a mind deduction?




If there is a perceiver surely it must be findable. I ask you to LOOK again.
Can you find it?




Can you find a controller of perception?




Can you find the center or edge or shape of the perceiver?




LOOK again....
Is there a thinker that thinks thoughts?




What else can you report about your actual experience as you look for this perceiver?





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[chii]

The belief in the perceiver was just another thought.
No actual perceiver can be found in direct experience.
No thinker of thoughts can be found in direct experience.
There is just the direct experience of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thinking.
It's clear now.

[Alless]

How does it feel to realize this Chii?




What thoughts still attend this knowing that are trying to convince you otherwise?



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[chii]

How does it feel to realize this Chii?

The realisation seems so simple and obvious but it doesn't feel like much has changed. I do find I'm catching thoughts more often and resting into to the flow of experience.

What thoughts still attend this knowing that are trying to convince you otherwise?

I recognise the belief/expectation that there should be a change in experience with the realisation, yet there are still thoughts arising such as
"am I missing something?"
"is there more to it?"

[Alless]

The realisation seems so simple and obvious but it doesn't feel like much has changed.

Yes it is so simple and obvious. And this recognition is the same for us all yet is experienced in a very unique way for each of us. Sometimes it is "Wow !!!" And it can range down to not being able to identify a specific moment when the realization occurred but there is a moment when it is realized that the way life is being lived is different. Whatever way it occurs there is this recognition that Nothing has changed but everything is somehow different.


Let's not rush this. We have plenty of time to let things unfold.

I sense it may be useful to take 2 or 3 days and let this really sink in. Then let me know what is happening. The aim here is not to achieve anything in particular but to be clear that life is happening without a separate independent entity running the show. It's one thing to see this and another to know that this is the truth

So take 2 or 3 days and come back and let me know what is experienced. We then can take what you report and go from there to investigate other aspects of belief that may be casting shadows.

When you report back in please tell me about
- what has different with identification with thought and how is it different, and
- do you notice any change in reactivity when triggered by situations or other people



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[chii]

Ok, thanks Alan. I will report back in a few days.

[Alless]

Looking forward to it Chii
And I see a typo....should read.......
"what is different with identification with thought"




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[chii]

Sorry for the late response, I've been extremely busy with work over the last two weeks and haven't had much time to reflect. It still doesn't feel like it has really sunk in yet. I'm still caught in thinking throughout most of day to day activities.

There is still identification with thoughts. The only times it feels any different is when I am able stop and take a break from activities to notice.

There also still seems to be reactivity, especially when around other people.
There have also been doubting thoughts about whether or not I'm missing something.

[Alless]

Good to hear Chii

First of all it may seem that you alone are experiencing what you are experiencing. Let me assure you that many have been exactly where you are.

Let's be patient with all this. We'll take it a step at a time. Let this be the most important thing in your life. That doesn't mean that we "forget" while we are caught up in life's busyness. That is all par for the course so to speak. However every moment you remember give yourself to this. Nurture it. Allow it to flower. No need to rush.

Here is a little video clip that I sense may reflect your experience in some way. Have a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDzrCLlrj4

What resonates here in this clip?



Does anything in particular "stick" for you?



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[Alless]

Chii
Should read
"that doesn't mean that we don't "forget" while we are caught up in life's busyness."

And I'll add...
It's like someone we dearly love. We are not specifically conscious of them every moment but that does not "dilute" our love that is felt for them.

Your love for truth will see you through.

[chii]

Thanks Alan, this video was very helpful. I notice the back and forth that is happening and I see the importance of continuing to question beliefs and orienting to truth as the process unfolds.

[Alless]

Lovely Chii


Does any aspects of the video call for a closer look?


Does looking somewhat closer at these beliefs have some resonance?



I'm wondering if your current busyness is still a pressure in this investigation for you?




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