Interested in exploring self/no-self

[OfTheField]

Hi David,

My sense is that Sergey has seen more than enough to have the shift happen. The difficulty is it doesn't penetrate to the emotional/existential level. It seems he has seen in so many ways that he doesn’t find a self but that for some reason it doesn’t penetrate the emotional/existential level can the two of you together maybe look into what is getting in the way of that, or alternatively what might allow that come about.

Does that make sense to you?

I agree that I have a good intellectual understanding of the lack of an inherent self. This statement makes sense.

Do you see what is getting in the way of that ?
Do you see what might allow that to come about?

I suspect my mind is a combination of flexible intellectually (as a daily life-long practice), and inflexible/protective emotionally because of difficult early childhood experiences that made my nervous system very tense (and it has stayed tense, mostly). So I can understand what you are saying and adopt the new way of seeing the self (intellectually), but my emotional mind is just not very open as a matter of habit.

Another limitation is that online text-only conversations are lower impact emotionally - they don't have the deep human component that communicates so much.

I want to clarify a little bit the choice belief: <snipped> Does that make sense to you?

Yes, that all makes sense! I agree with it all.

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

I suspect my mind is a combination of flexible intellectually (as a daily life-long practice), and inflexible/protective emotionally because of difficult early childhood experiences that made my nervous system very tense (and it has stayed tense, mostly). So I can understand what you are saying and adopt the new way of seeing the self (intellectually), but my emotional mind is just not very open as a matter of habit.

As I come from a challenging childhood I understand you perfectly. I spend years working on reintegrating the energy trauma of my body. Reconnecting with the sensation can be a long process. I wrote two texts about this matter. Have a look and tell me if it makes sense to you:
https://www.davidbonny.com/empruntes-familiales
https://www.davidbonny.com/somatic-experiencing

The guidance in LU is not oriented toward therapeutic healing of emotion, trauma, and childhood imprints. Even though is a big part of the "blocage" of seeing clearly. We focus here on seeing the illusion of the separate self and other details connected to that.

I recommend you find a therapist with whom you could explore and heal those parts of you. I STRONGLY recommend somatic-based therapy because more talking will not help you much. Presencial sessions are the best, but I don't know if you have access to that kind of therapy where you live.

Another limitation is that online text-only conversations are a lower impact emotionally - they don't have the deep human component that communicates so much.

I understand that text-only is not the best for that kind of exploration. I do not offer free one-to-one sessions. If you want to switch to an online session with me there will be a cost.

I know some guides provide that kind of guidance for free you can find information in the forum.

Therapeutic work was a huge part of my journey. It took me years to understand that therapy and non-duality are not contradictory or opposed.


Now that you have more clarity of your actual situation. And the limitation you feel with the online text-only conversations.

I wonder what do you feel is best for you now?

What do you need to keep this process unfolding?

How can I support you ?

Take care

[OfTheField]

Hello David,

I recommend you find a therapist with whom you could explore and heal those parts of you. I STRONGLY recommend somatic-based therapy because more talking will not help you much.

I have been doing a lot of different types of healing work, and some of it very much somatic. It's all helping, but slowly...

I do not offer free one-to-one sessions. If you want to switch to an online session with me there will be a cost.

I do not mind paying for an online session. It would be nice to meet you "face-to-face" after all of the text-only conversation. Should I contact you via direct message or email?

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

After our discussion, I developed this exploration that I hope will be interesting for you.

From perceptions to sensations

Do this exploration not only on your meditation cushion but also in everyday life. It will be more fruitful in the “mondain” situation. Do this exploration every 30min or as often as you can. It must be done with a sense of curiosity and joyfulness. If you start to feel strain and effort stop immediately. Is better to do it 3 times a day with pleasure than 30 with tension!

Purpose
The purpose is to train in diving into sensations without doing anything about them. Also to see that the triggers of sensation can be “outside” but the sensation is always in your experience.


There are 2 explorations. Try to alternate between the two.

1 –Repulsion
Look at the room where you are. Let your eyes move around and explore the room and the objects within it without effort. It can be a room but you can also do it outside, at the supermarket, metro, etc…

Find an object that you feel repulsion when you look at it. The repulsion can be very strong: “That’s disgusting” or very subtle: “This flower is strange.”

When you find this object. When I say object, it can be a person, a wall, a color anything. Try to feel in your body the sensation that corresponds to that repulsion.

When you find this sensation stay with the sensation dropping seeing and thinking all together to feel the sensation fully. Don’t try to change, modify it. Simply feel it.

2 -Attraction
Do the same process as the repulsion but now with an object that you feel attraction to.
Again it can be strong: “That’s a tasty chocolate cake” or subtle “I like this table”.

[OfTheField]

Hi David,

Sorry for the delay - we have houseguests. I may be delayed over the next week or so as well.

I tried this exercise. It is very interesting. I'll keep doing it.

I also noticed my legs and how pleasant they can be regularly after on the day after our meeting, but forgot all about them today. Now my attention has been brought back to them.

Thank you.

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

Take all the time you need.

I also noticed my legs and how pleasant they can be regularly after on the day after our meeting, but forgot all about them today. Now my attention has been brought back to them.

That is great, keep it on! ^^

Take care

[OfTheField]

Hi David,

I have been trying the positive/negative and "don't do anything about it" exercise on and off as I can recall it. It's interesting, and seems worthwhile to keep doing.

What do you recommend next?

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

Nice to hear from you.

What do you recommend next?

That depends on where you are right now. Tell me more about this:

I have been trying the positive/negative and "don't do anything about it" exercise on and off as I can recall it. It's interesting, and seems worthwhile to keep doing.

Why is this exercise interesting to you?
What did you find out?

Why is it worthwhile for you?
What changes can you find in your day-to-day experience?

And those two:
How do you relate to your thoughts?
How do you relate to your emotions?

[OfTheField]

Hi David,

Why is this exercise interesting to you?

It turned out to be somewhat similar to my meditation practice but that is with eyes closed. Here the eyes are open and it's very short. The "interesting" part is that the experience of just allowing bodily sensations to continue on mimics what happens during seated meditation.

What did you find out?

Intentionally taking the posture of "there's nothing to do about this" usually results in bodily sensations changing rapidly within the short window of my attention.

Why is it worthwhile for you?

Yes. It's a good option to interrupt complex or challenging experiences with this exercise.

What changes can you find in your day-to-day experience?

None yet. Probably have to do this much more for it to make its way into my day-to-day experience. My meditation practice has the same very long delay. It takes many many days of regular meditation for me to detect any day-to-day changes.

How do you relate to your thoughts?

It depends on what they are. Some thoughts I treat simply as content floating by, and let them go with ease. Some thoughts are essentially "to-do" lists and I take them seriously as reminders. Some rare thoughts have such strong negative valence, that my mind tries to refuse to have them.

How do you relate to your emotions?

Unfortunately, I often don't know what emotions are occurring, or am overwhelmed by my emotions. I practice with approaching whatever emotional state arises in a friendly and allowing way, but it is difficult and I often am unable to do so.

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

Try to remove the "am" from your experience.

For example, if anger arises in us we often say to others:
I am angry.

Same for fear and almost all other emotions.
I am fearful.

It is the same with sensation. When we feel hungry, tired etc...
I am hungry, tired etc...

Try to go by your day and remove the "am" from your thought process and speech. Usually, the difference is subtle and others shouldn't even notice it. So you can practice with everyone. Try always to use nouns when you speak about emotion and sensation.

If an emotion arises say and think:
I FEEL anger
I FEEL fear
I FEEL etc..

When resistance to an emotion arises do the same.
I FEEL resistance toward this anger.

Same for sensation:
I feel hunger
I feel pain
I feel tired.
etc.

Same for the sensation of muscle if your leg is stiff you are not stiff. so:
I feel stiffness in my leg.


That way you allow emotion and sensation to be. But it should give you a little step back from them.

Try for a few days and let me know how it goes.

Take care.

David

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

How are you doing?

[OfTheField]

Hi David,

It was challenging for me to remember to do the two most recent exercises. After a few days, I forgot about them.

I still spend some time each day focusing on my legs and reflecting on how there is pleasant sensations in them compared to my torso, especially in meditation.

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

LU is specifically oriented toward seeing through the illusion of the separate self. And there are tools and exercises to do so.
The guidance here is not oriented toward emotion healing or trauma resolution. Even if this is something that is part of the realization process.

Are you still interested in investigating the reality of the individual in this forum?


In my experience guidance works when there is a continuous focus and exploration of experience.
Precisely because it is so easy and fast to forget or to get lost in the hypnosis of thinking. Building momentum is essential.
For this guidance to be meaningful to you and hopefully provide an experiential shift we have to agree to write every day, or at least every 2 days.

Is that commitment right for you?

Take care

David

[OfTheField]

Hello David,

Thank you for the kind reminder. I had gotten off track.

Yes, I am ready and able to commit to focusing on seeing through the illusion of a separate self. And I can respond to messages every 1-2 days.

[Windaway]

Hello Sergey,

Great, I happy to know you are still motivated. ^^

Try this:
True & lies
Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?