They say I don't exist

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Tue May 03, 2022 10:40 am

What happened to the melon?
Which melon :)
How about the sensation that was so believable?
No...
Was there ever a melon in ‘reality’?
No, mental image.
Was there an appearing mental image?
Yes.
Was the content of the mental image (the melon) ‘real’?
No.
Can you see this?
Yes.

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Fri May 06, 2022 11:14 am

Great work! Sorry I missed the notification for your post, so I hadn’t seen that you’d replied - my apologies!

Can you see how thoughts are really experienced, but their content is not?

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Fri May 06, 2022 11:29 am

Can you see how thoughts are really experienced, but their content is not?
no problem, yes, we can't taste or smell the things that are imagined.

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Sat May 07, 2022 2:33 pm

Great work!

So, outside of what the content of thought says, is there anything other than direct experience (colour, sensation, thought arising, sound, taste, smell)?

Is there any part of direct experience which you are controlling?

Do you produce the next sight, sound, sensation, taste, smell, or thought… or does it appear on its own?


Decide to move one of your hands.

Did you know/choose how you would move it and which hand you’d use for the exercise?

Outside of thought content, is there a controller?

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Sat May 07, 2022 2:35 pm

Did you produce the sights and sensations of movement when you moved your hand?

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Mon May 09, 2022 8:04 am

So, outside of what the content of thought says, is there anything other than direct experience (colour, sensation, thought arising, sound, taste, smell)?
No.
Is there any part of direct experience which you are controlling?
I thought I had moved the item. How do I know for sure that I really didn't do it?
Do you produce the next sight, sound, sensation, taste, smell, or thought… or does it appear on its own?
I opened a video on YouTube and there was a sound, I opened this sound. but I didn't make the sounds coming from outside.
Did you know/choose how you would move it and which hand you’d use for the exercise?
No, it happens randomly.
Outside of thought content, is there a controller?
When I try to organize my room, I am the one who cleans the room.
Did you produce the sights and sensations of movement when you moved your hand?
No, I did not produce it. I just triggered it.

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Mon May 09, 2022 3:52 pm

So, outside of what the content of thought says, is there anything other than direct experience (colour, sensation, thought arising, sound, taste, smell)?
No.

Great work!

Is there any part of direct experience which you are controlling?
I thought I had moved the item. How do I know for sure that I really didn't do it?

Any part of direct experience in this case meant a sight, sound, smell, taste, sensation or thought. Are you producing or controlling any of these appearances?

Is ‘you moving the item’ experienced, or only thought ABOUT?


Knowing through thinking isn’t what we’re after. SEE by LOOKING.

Do you produce the next sight, sound, sensation, taste, smell, or thought… or does it appear on its own?
I opened a video on YouTube and there was a sound, I opened this sound. but I didn't make the sounds coming from outside.

Does the experience of hearing contain any information of making? Is making or not making experienced anywhere? Or is making or not making just thought ABOUT?

Did you know/choose how you would move it and which hand you’d use for the exercise?
No, it happens randomly.

Great work.

Outside of thought content, is there a controller?
When I try to organize my room, I am the one who cleans the room.

Does this have any correlation to experience at all? Does it refer to any direct experience, or is it just thought ABOUT?

Did you produce the sights and sensations of movement when you moved your hand?
No, I did not produce it. I just triggered it

Is there any evidence in direct experience is there of either triggering and a trigger-er? Or is triggering only thought ABOUT and not experienced?

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Wed May 11, 2022 8:39 pm

Are you producing or controlling any of these appearances?
Is ‘you moving the item’ experienced, or only thought ABOUT?
Not producing, The idea that I'm checking is starting to feel empty. Then I wonder why these images appear and disappear
Does the experience of hearing contain any information of making? Is making or not making experienced anywhere? Or is making or not making just thought ABOUT?
Does this have any correlation to experience at all? Does it refer to any direct experience, or is it just thought ABOUT?
just thought, direct experience does not mean maked or bot maked
Is there any evidence in direct experience is there of either triggering and a trigger-er? Or is triggering only thought ABOUT and not experienced?
Just thought

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Thu May 12, 2022 3:01 pm

Great work with these answers! You’re starting to LOOK at your experience…


Looking at an Object

Wherever you are sitting right now, look for an object to use. Don’t pick up the object or turn it around, only look at what can be seen without touching it or turning it.

Now look at it and describe what you see. Give yourself a bit of time with it. Just look, nothing else.

Now describe the back side of the object.

How is it known what the back side looks like?
What tells what it looks like?
How can it be known that there is a back at all?
That the object is 3D? Can this be known in direct experience?
Can an object be known at all?


Only describe what can be known through direct experience, not what can be thought ABOUT.

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Sat May 14, 2022 11:14 am

How is it known what the back side looks like?
unknown.
What tells what it looks like?
Thought.
How can it be known that there is a back at all?
the belief that something always has a downside, that is, thought. there is a thought that it has a back.
That the object is 3D? Can this be known in direct experience?
Can an object be known at all?
maybe just a picture. we always see one side of it through direct experience. so having 3d is a thought and guess.

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Sun May 15, 2022 12:52 am

Hey Emre,

Great work! I can tell you’re really getting the hang of this; well done.

Now let’s explore control again with this understanding. Have a close LOOK:

What is experienced when you ‘decide’ to move one of your hands?

Can controlling be found in the direct experience of sensing movement, or can it only be thought ABOUT?

Is there any evidence in experience of one thing (for instance a thought) controlling another thing (for instance sensation)? Or is control only thought ABOUT?

Can a controlling entity be found in direct experience, or only in the content of thought?

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Tue May 17, 2022 10:06 pm

Can controlling be found in the direct experience of sensing movement, or can it only be thought ABOUT?
One day, when you go out with your friend, you follow your friend. another day, when your friend says something, no, I will do it differently. You control it by saying let's go here, not where you say. You convince him that they're not saying well about it, and he'll agree with you.
Is there any evidence in experience of one thing (for instance a thought) controlling another thing (for instance sensation)? Or is control only thought ABOUT?
My feelings also changed when I read an article that explained well that the way we do and think about a subject is wrong and how we should act. and that behavior still makes a lot of sense.
Can a controlling entity be found in direct experience, or only in the content of thought?
It's a direct experience to start acting and doing things instead of sluggishly waiting for something to be said to me.

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Wed May 18, 2022 4:24 am

None of your answers relate to actual, direct experience, as it is understood here… can you see that?

Again, direct experience is…

Seeing (colour)
Hearing
Tasting
Sensing (sensation)
Smelling
Thought Arising (thought itself, not the content to which it refers)


‘Days, friends, controlling, differing ideas, right and wrong, acting doing, sluggishness, initiative…’

Are these words anything other than the content of thought? Do they refer to anything at all within actual, direct experience?

Have another go of those previous questions, please… stay with experience and out of the content of thought.

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kirmizihap
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby kirmizihap » Thu May 19, 2022 8:34 pm

Are these words anything other than the content of thought? Do they refer to anything at all within actual, direct experience?
nothing more than thought content
Can controlling be found in the direct experience of sensing movement, or can it only be thought ABOUT?
We say that a commander controls the soldiers by giving orders. a thought in direct experience.
Is there any evidence in experience of one thing (for instance a thought) controlling another thing (for instance sensation)? Or is control only thought ABOUT?
no evidence found.
Can a controlling entity be found in direct experience, or only in the content of thought?
Only content of thought.

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Harry
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Re: They say I don't exist

Postby Harry » Sat May 21, 2022 1:23 am

Great work! All your answers seem to contain SEEING except this one, which comes from thought content…

We say that a commander controls the soldiers by giving orders. a thought in direct experience.

My original question was:

Can controlling be found in the direct experience of sensing movement, or can it only be thought ABOUT?

Perhaps this wording will be clearer…

Does the direct experience of pure sensation contain any information of control? Or is the information of control only contained in thought?


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