Am here to deconstruct my ‘self’

[graceabounds]

The latter, though with time the volume is reduced and as more and more underlying beliefs are seen through.

Is there ‘I’?

[Jarf1shRaw]

Okay that's reassuring.

Is there ‘I’?

Just feels like a bunch of sticky thoughts. Like a belief system very fundamental level, but if 'I' truly look I can't find it. Can you suggest some more inquiries on this?

[graceabounds]

:)

Can the thought ‘I’ think anything?

Can ‘I’ exist without the past? (Meaning, when ‘I’ appears does it always reference a story?)

What’s left if “I” is never referred to again?
Try this for a full day: No use of the word “I” mentally or verbally. Describe everything without it…
ie “I want food” becomes “hunger arises”
What happens?

[Jarf1shRaw]

Can the thought ‘I’ think anything?

No, but there are more 'I' thoughts that could arise responding to a previous I thought and pretend the first 'I' thought was what was thinking the next lol

Can ‘I’ exist without the past? (Meaning, when ‘I’ appears does it always reference a story?)

What’s left if “I” is never referred to again?
Try this for a full day: No use of the word “I” mentally or verbally. Describe everything without it…
ie “I want food” becomes “hunger arises”
What happens?

Nice, will try this and let you know what is noticed! I'll reply in a few days. Will have to skip doing it tomorrow as I've got a hospital appointment and important meeting at work so might be a bit odd hahaha

[graceabounds]

No, but there are more 'I' thoughts that could arise responding to a previous I thought and pretend the first 'I' thought was what was thinking the next lol

😵‍💫

In other words they are all separate?

Will have to skip doing it tomorrow as I've got a hospital appointment and important meeting at work so might be a bit odd hahaha

Yep, no rush and no need to be weird.
So just notice during these if anyone is to be found doing the doing…

[Jarf1shRaw]

In other words they are all separate?

Yeah, they might reflect the last one, but they don't have an awareness of their own

Yep, no rush and no need to be weird.
So just notice during these if anyone is to be found doing the doing…

For sure. But there is a want to see if it can be done today at work haha. It's starts by internally noticing the thoughts with 'I', and then when outwardly expressing things there's a curiosity to see how much it's actually needed in dialog or if it's just a habit that humans always frame conversations around themselves and their views. Let's see!

Thanks

[graceabounds]

What happened with the experiment at work?

[Jarf1shRaw]

Being totally honest I spoke with 'I' and 'me' throughout the whole day so automatically, but did notice when it was after the words had come out.

Yet what was noticed that there was some conversations that were just not flowing. Like for example when there was a joke a colleague made about 'me' that I was trying to go along with, it was weird because even though it was meant to be light-hearted fun, the concept of the joke being around a tendency that 'I' have and one of 'my' characteristics that make up 'who I am', were just seen through and felt odd to be going along with. I wasn't trying to think this way either, like I've adopted this new concept that I'm nothing, and that the joke threatened that, but it just didn't feel right anymore to characterise this idea of me with words, for a moment it felt so pointless haha I don't know how to describe it.

[graceabounds]

Haha yep.
Here’s a variation…

Throughout the day, when a thought about "I" comes up, replace the letter!
"I want to have this" -> "O want to have this"
Can "O" want to have anything?
No.
How then could "I" want to have anything?

"I don't like that" -> "A don't like that"
Can "A" dislike anything?
No.
How come there is an idea that "I" can dislike anything?

See what that does to the structure of some underlying beliefs…

[Jarf1shRaw]

Been doing it throughout the last few days and gotta say there's only a realization after the initial 'I' thought comes up, but 'I' guess that's what I'm supposed to do -- see 'I' just did it then, and again haha!

[graceabounds]

Its a comedy, truly

:)

If you were to repeat a few times “there is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be”
what is noticed? In the body, in thought, viscerally, experientially?

[Jarf1shRaw]

Hi there

Apologies for the absence, back now!

If you were to repeat a few times “there is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be”
what is noticed? In the body, in thought, viscerally, experientially?

I've felt into this a few times over the week and what it feels like varies on the setting I do it in, and usually just varies because of resistance coming up. For example if I do this in a meditative space where i'm by myself, the boundaries of sensation in the body seem to open up to a spaciousness. Whereas, if I do it in a social setting in public, or even to myself after a 'socially emotionally charged day', there seems to be more of a bracing/knot in the stomach, where coupled with more thought activity.

Also that brings me to something in my work which is making me examine intense emotions and my own beliefs. As I'm organising a festival and have overall responsibility, and have lot's of people giving me different inputs and conflicting messages, I've noticed it feels like 'me' who's vulnerable to attack/scrutiny. So when looking into this, I can't find the 'I', and at the same time the beliefs built round advice from reputable people in the industry is being directly challenged by some of my colleagues and I'm not sure of to believe in anything. Do I have to form beliefs or just pick one without attachments to the belief or outcome?

I've noticed the emptier awareness becomes, the more peace and freedom there is. I'm getting less and less bothered about gathering more info whether that's on awakening/non-duality or even pondering these decisions about my work. There's a longing to trust and let go of it all. It's definitely happening, but I'm not sure then how much of it I'm now forcing surrender, instead of just being in the natural already occurring state?

PS. I've also had some really beautiful moments of staring at trees which look so alive as if I've taken mushrooms but I'm just on my work break or have been fascinated by just looking at cracks in walls. Also just laughing out-loud in public when catching a thought pretending to be 'me' etc, so a shift is definitely in swing! Lots of intense emotions and deeply restful experiences, let's just see how far it deepens!

Love
J

[graceabounds]

Lovely to hear from you.

Do I have to form beliefs or just pick one without attachments to the belief or outcome?

This is a conceptual question… Can you see, right now, that both “having beliefs” and “being free of beliefs” are just ideas? stories laid over the rawness of what’s here?

Is there someone here who can choose anything? Who could be attached or unattached?

… Are there others???


That trust and letting go is occurring already, not as a doing but just in the laughter that comes when the illusion is caught.

thought pretending to be 'me' etc, so a shift is definitely in swing! Lots of intense emotions and deeply restful experiences, let's just see how far it deepens!

Beautiful. I would concur that shifting is happening. What’s the bodily feeling of seeing this?

Is anything you just described personal? or is it all just experience moving, with no one in charge?

Much love back,
B

[Jarf1shRaw]

“having beliefs” and “being free of beliefs” are just ideas? stories laid over the rawness of what’s here?

Good point. Just more conceptualisation.

Is there someone here who can choose anything? Who could be attached or unattached?

It can feel like 'I'm' conflicted in these situations sometimes, but I guess that's just a thought tied to intense emotions. Because when I look for where the 'I' is, nothing is there. So there's no one to form beliefs in the first place, there's just mind activity?

Are there others???

This one seems to be trickier to realise than when I stare at a tree and feel less and less separation to me perceiver and the tree (object). Although I have had more and more glimpses of this when seeing and interacting with people, a lot of the time the social constructs seem to be a form of resistance that take a lot of attention away from the simplicity, making it seem like there are others outside of me. But deep down I know this isn't true, but when in the world of people and things, it just seems more eluding than when out in nature lol.

That trust and letting go is occurring already, not as a doing but just in the laughter that comes when the illusion is caught.

Nice

Beautiful. I would concur that shifting is happening. What’s the bodily feeling of seeing this?

It feels quite expansive but also when these thoughts are seen as thoughts and not 'me' it feels like a release of tension and this bracing the body is doing as if to keep 'me' and 'my' beliefs protected. So it can feel uncomfortable at first but once I realise there's resistance, it relaxes itself!

Is anything you just described personal? or is it all just experience moving, with no one in charge?

Nah none of it's personal. Only in thought does it feel personal

Cheers

[graceabounds]

It can feel like 'I'm' conflicted in these situations sometimes, but I guess that's just a thought tied to intense emotions. Because when I look for where the 'I' is, nothing is there. So there's no one to form beliefs in the first place, there's just mind activity?

Is it known as a thought that no one is there or is it seen no one is there? If the latter then for example no one could be there to take ownership of conflicted, it was always an appearance.

Is ‘conflicted’ two different thoughts arising?
Are beliefs a thought plus another believing thought?

This one seems to be trickier to realise than when I stare at a tree and feel less and less separation to me perceiver and the tree (object). Although I have had more and more glimpses of this when seeing and interacting with people, a lot of the time the social constructs seem to be a form of resistance that take a lot of attention away from the simplicity, making it seem like there are others outside of me. But deep down I know this isn't true, but when in the world of people and things, it just seems more eluding than when out in nature lol.

Yes. This is one of the most difficult layers to see clearly. Let’s see if we can support the deep down seeing with some specific questions.

Can you find a self in other “human bodies”? How do you KNOW it’s there?
Can the “I” of “others” be directly experienced? Can you directly experience "others"?

Right now, when the word “others” comes up what’s actually here? A thought-image of faces? A memory? A label “my mum”,“my coworker”, “my bus driver”? Or is there an actual second entity standing apart, separate, “other”?

Is there you here and someone else over there in direct experience, before the story sticks?
Or are there just colors, sounds, sensations, and thought saying “that’s another person”?

Can you find any “entity” behind the face, or only colors-shapes-sounds + a thought saying “that’s another person”? Where is the border between “me” and “others,” except in narration?

It feels quite expansive but also when these thoughts are seen as thoughts and not 'me' it feels like a release of tension and this bracing the body is doing as if to keep 'me' and 'my' beliefs protected

Yes this is very good seeing, there is a lightness in the body. The story of I is a lie, and the body relaxes when that is not being held onto. :)