Looking and seeing

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

There is a knowing of experience, but that knowing cannot be isolated because it actually IS that experience (seeing, hearing etc) – it’s all included, inseparable.
Even with eyes closed there is still seeing, sensations, sound – aliveness. Only thought creates separate things--trying to describe the “details” and creating objects and subjects in the process. Like the knowing of seeing (awareness) which sees the colors – a noun (subject), verb (action) and another noun (object) – it looks more like language than reality, don’t you think?

Reality is very simple – it’s just THIS, which includes all – seeing_hearing_tasting_sensing_smelling_thinking_knowing of it. And it’s all happening RIGHT NOW.
So, is the knowing of it an agency or an attribute?

If there is an agent then there is doer-ship, and down the rabbit hole we go.

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Hi Cheryl,

I have often wondered over the years what the perception of the world would be like if words did not exist.
The mind uses words to break anything down and sometimes it’s exhausting, I’d like to switch it off and let the life just be.
I see that there is a continuum of perceptions, at the same time I see, feel, am aware of my body etc and all this happens without a doer.

it looks more like language than reality, don’t you think?

Yes, language wants define every detail of the picture, but life is the entire picture, not a sum of fragments.

Reality is very simple – it’s just THIS, which includes all – seeing_hearing_tasting_sensing_smelling_thinking_knowing of it. And it’s all happening RIGHT NOW.
So, is the knowing of it an agency or an attribute?

The knowing of what it is is not an action, there is not a doer who does the action of knowing, it’s just ten pure perceptions.
I’d like to be able to look outside the window and just seeing without categorizing “tree”, “grass”, “clouds” but there is an incessant voice speaking like”it’s a fig tree”, “the grass is too long”…..

Ciao, Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Yes!

When you look, you can see “body” is a very complex label describing many colors, sensations, tastes, etc. You can see how the illusion of an "I" is supported through this label. Once you have a ‘body’ it’s not that far to have an owner of the 'body'.
So, is there an owner of the 'body'?
Is there a center to which sensations are happening?
Is there a center to which experiences are happening?

Can the "body" do things?
Can a label do things?
("At some point the body gets up and goes to make food or eat")

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Dear Cheryl,

is there an owner of the 'body'?
Is there a center to which sensations are happening?
Is there a center to which experiences are happening?

It seems that the brain is the owner of the body but if I look deeply there is nothing, ‘cause the brain is part of the body. But the illusion and the idea is strong.
There is not a center to which sensations or experiences are happening, they involve the whole body.

Can the "body" do things?
Can a label do things?

Ok, I see that “body” is a label and cannot do things. At this point, is there “doing” or there is just “happening”?
It seems that there is just “happening”…
I have to think about it, it actually seems that way but I have to understand better.


Thank you ❤️
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush.
You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Hi dear Cheryl.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No, when I sit in meditation it cannot be known. I can only know how tall I am if I have some points of reference with my open eyes.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

If I look at the se sensations, there is the touch of the body with the chair and this contact, this pressure, it’s what I call weight, but it’s just a sensation. About the volume, I can perceive only the breeze on my skin and my mind establishes that the boundary of the body is where I am touched.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No, the mind knows the shape but in actual experience I cannot perceive it.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

There are sensations of warmth and sensations of freshness and these sensations define were clothing is or is absent and consequently the boundaries.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

There is the sensation of touching something, a pressure that indicates where the body ends and the chair starts and this is the boundary.

Is there an inside or an outside?

There are temperature differences: warm inside, fresh outside. Then I almost constantly feel a sensation of anxiety in the middle of the chest and this is inside close to where I feel the heart beating. The breeze is arriving from my left side, the right side is warmer…this is what gives me advice on inside/outside, boundaries and directions.

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Of the skin. Everything touches my skin is outside the body.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
It refers To the boundaries between it and the environment.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Sensations, the actual experience are sensations.

❤️
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Just to be perfectly clear:

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
There are sensations of warmth and sensations of freshness and these sensations define were clothing is or is absent and consequently the boundaries.

Please break this down into Direct Experience.
For instance
sensation of warmth
sensation of freshness

What is freshness?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
There is the sensation of touching something, a pressure that indicates where the body ends and the chair starts and this is the boundary.

How do you know where the body ends and the chair starts?

a sensation of anxiety in the middle of the chest and this is inside close to where I feel the heart beating.

What is a sensation of anxiety?
How do you know it's the middle of the chest?
How do you know it's inside?


Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Ciao Cheryl.

The answer changes depending on whether I keep my eyes open or closed: if I keep my eyes open the boundary is the skin; if I keep my eyes closed there is no body or clothes, there are only sensations.
If I suspend every thought then I know nothing: there is no interpretation of sensations, there is no name/label, but only the awareness of the sensation and consequently there are no boundaries or the boundary is where there is no sensation felt.

What is a sensation of anxiety?
How do you know it's the middle of the chest?
How do you know it's inside?

I feel it because, by bringing attention to a part of the body, I am aware of it. If I bring my awareness downwards I feel cold feet, if I bring it to my hands I feel heat, if I bring it between my stomach and my heart I feel anxiety, which is an emotion and not actually a sensation. The sensation of discomfort is felt in some organ, in the upper part of the stomach I presume.
They are all different sensations, with different names.

Love,
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.
Repeat the exercise several times.
Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colors and shapes?
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
( Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love,
Cheryl

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

I'm flying to Ireland today, so i will be much closer to your time zone!

However, because i am traveling, i will not be as prompt in responding to you for the next 2 weeks.

love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Dear Cheryl,

here are my answers.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No, there isn’t any connection between what I feel and the image in the mirror.

(

3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No, there isn’t. They’re completely not linked.

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

The situation is the same as above: sensations are not at all linked with the image.

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

No no. In fact – that can sound crazy – sometimes in the morning when I wake up and go to the bathroom I see the image in the mirror and it takes few second to remember that it’s “me”.

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colors and shapes?

As everything else, “body” is just a label.

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

It is the though that suggests that there must be legs and foot, the image by itself doesn’t indicate anything more that what I see.

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

When ignoring thoughts and images only sensations are left.

( Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

There are only sensations.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

In this sense there isn’t any experience, because everything is sensation and specific labels put on specific sensation give us a “catalogue” to explain what is sensed.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

We agree that everything is a label given to perceptions, but this does not deny their existence. "Body" is a label given to a system of organs, cells, atoms but it is still an existing, constantly changing, but defined entity. My body is one thing, the chair I lean on is something else, even if at the level of sensations I cannot say what is a chair and what is a body. I can only do this with my eyes open, when my brain catalogs shapes and colors into known labels.

Enjoy your trip!
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Yes. What IS that collection of colors you see in the mirror early in the morning??? :)

this does not deny their existence. "Body" is a label given to a system of organs, cells, atoms but it is still an existing, constantly changing, but defined entity.

You know that the cells of the body change every 7 years. Some change much faster. The lining of the stomach changes every 3 days.
You do not have the same body you had when you were 5 years old or 25.
So what is the "defined entity"?


Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Ciao Cheryl!
It seems to me that everything can be referred as impermanent, constantly changing.
The body shows this process faster than a rock, a flower faster than a body…but this doesn’t change the category name. Flowers are flowers, bodies are bodies. Both constantly changing.
Even if I call this shape and these colors I name “body” with another label, the substance wouldn’t change: it’s still a group of organs + mind. It’s not a group of petals + leaves.
Sure I am not my body, or not only my body.

Love,
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Thanks for your patience. I am finally somewhere that has wifi!
We are flying home today, so i'll return to regular responding tomorrow :)

Let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the two exercises below and report your findings.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.

If there is ‘here’ or ‘there’, there must be a refence point, right?
Without center, “I” there is no reference point, hence no location. ‘Location’ (left, right, up, down, etc.) is a label, ‘here’ and ‘there’ are labels for various things (hearing, seeing, sensing).

So, is there a choice or just cause and effect playing out?

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Hi Cheryl, welcome back!
No worries at all, vacation is vacation :-)

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over

I can’t see any thought to give movement to my hand. The same when I am knitting: hands go by themselves, automatically.
And I can’t find a real decision to move: the movement happens at his right time.

If there is ‘here’ or ‘there’, there must be a refence point, right?
Without center, “I” there is no reference point, hence no location. ‘Location’ (left, right, up, down, etc.) is a label, ‘here’ and ‘there’ are labels for various things (hearing, seeing, sensing).

About the location, the center seems to be the brain, the place where I am conscious of the perceptions. There is a sound, the hearing happens and together with the hearing there is the knowledge of the direction from the sound comes.

So, is there a choice or just cause and effect playing out?

There’s no choice, everything depends on -let say - the software stored in my mind.

Today when I was doing these exercises a thought came to my mind about my father: many years ago, when I saw it’s body immediately after his death, I knew without any doubts that “he” wasn’t there anymore, that his body was just a vessel he used to live this life. So I am pretty sure that there is something that animates us, this intelligence is what makes our body move. I know that I can’t prove it with direct experience but maybe there are things that one knows and cannot prove….

💕
Lucia