Looking and seeing

[Lucia73]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Every day I try to see, to truly see, but still no comprehension arises. The concept is clear, the mind understands but the “I” remains. That’s why I am asking for a guide, possibly an Italian guide because the language is a big part of the concept.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for the experience of NO I. No Me. Not just the mental concept, but the real experience. After that maybe I will be able to rest my anxiety, my sadness and approach life with ease. I need peace, acceptance and positivity. I do not want to be afraid of life anymore.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be guided to experience the truth of the “no I”. I tried to do it by myself, reading books and watching video, from LU or Rupert Spira or Shakty Caterina Maggi, but I do not have experienced this truth. I cannot find an I, but “no I” its another concept.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started my research 35 years ago and I am now discouraged and tired. I started by reading “The Tao of physics” by Fritjof Capra. Then I read many books, watched many videos, Eckart Tolle, Rupert Spira, Shakti Caterina Maggi, Mooji…but never experienced the truth of “no I” . Maybe there is something wrong with my mind.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,
(is that what you prefer to be called?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Cheryl, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

I do not speak Italian; i live in the United States. Would you prefer to wait for an Italian guide?

Love
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Hello Cheryl! Thank you for your kind reply!
I am very happy that you responded to me, and I would be grateful if you would be my guide.
I thought that I don't have particular problems in understanding written english and indeed it can be a way to stay more focused.

Sending love,
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue.

What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

1. Throughout this process, your focus should be solely on your direct experience. We will avoid delving into theories, beliefs, or alternative methods, including those from non-duality. Relying on external beliefs is not the aim. I will pose questions, and your responses should stem directly from your personal experiences.

2. The key elements driving this process are your desire to discover the truth and your willingness to delve deeply into questions. Wholehearted engagement in the experiments and exercises I present is crucial. Your commitment to reporting experiences here with complete honesty is essential. If you are prepared for this level of engagement, the process will naturally unfold as it should.

3. To ensure focus and productivity in this process, both of us commit to responding on this thread daily. In cases of exceptional circumstances preventing a response, we agree to communicate this in advance on the thread, either the day before or on the day. If this rhythm doesn't align with your lifestyle, style, or preferences, please inform me, and alternative arrangements can be made with another guide.

Please read the following documents from LU and make sure you are on board with their content: honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That also means leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might be helpful.

Also now is a good time to read through some important links and let me know if you are OK with everything before we get started.

1) The LU Disclaimer: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do so as well.

I’m in the Eastern time zone of the United States—GMT-5

Let's get started.

Love,
Cheryl

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

I write the pointing questions that I want answered in blue to distinguish them from the rest of the text.
You don’t have to use any other color, but please watch the video on quoting (link in my first message) as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.

If you see a question in blue, please answer it.

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Got it!
I live in the North East of Italy, not far from Venice, GMT+2.
I will write daily after work & dinner (I am a mother of two) before going to bed.

Love, Lucia

[Lucia73]

Hello Cheryl,

Here are my answers.

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

The world will remain the same but the approach I have will change completely. No more anxiety, calm, peace, end of the search.

2

. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

I expect to feel light, no more heaviness and no more fear of life.

3.

What do you want not to happen?

I am a little afraid of losing my memories of being a child. As if finding that the nonexistence of a separate self would erase the most beautiful part of my life, that is, my childhood.

4.

What are you hoping for?

To find the peace of the heart and of the mind. To stop anxiety and find the joy of living.

5.

What is missing?

I didn’t catch the meaning of this question….what is missing in my life? Serenity, letting go and let the life happen.

Have a nice evening ❤️
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia.

All expectations, no matter what you expect, is not what it is going to be like. Anytime you feel stuck, come back to expectations, if there is something that you think that should be happening, but it isn't- there is an expectation behind it. Expectations are not useful; they only get in the way.

This article on Expectations may be of use. https://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2013 ... tions.html

There is no separate self, never has been and never will be. That there is a self is just a made-up story.

What reactions - from none to subtle to strong - come up when you read that statement?


Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Ciao Cheryl,

I read the article on expectations. It's an exercice I try to do when I fear something. For instance in the morning when I go to work and I fear it will be a challenging day, whith lot of urgent requests coming from the management, I try to drop every thought and let it be what it will be and accept it. Not easy. I'm not so able in doing this.
About my expectations on this process, I feel more easy to let the expectations fall away even if, to be sincere, there is a thought about "me to be able to see the thruth". Kind a "I am not enough smart if I do not see".
I try to not indulge in this thoughts.

There is no separate self, never has been and never will be. That there is a self is just a made-up story.

What reactions - from none to subtle to strong - come up when you read that statement?

Well, there is a subtle fear to disappear...then there is the thought that is impossible...the body is here.
Another thought is that my memories of the past then are false, the "Lucia" I remember never existed. As if it was a totally made-up movie: me, my parents, my childhood, all false and going to disappear forever. Since I do not have my parents anymore, memories are all that I have.
And then I fear that I wont be able to catch this that for you is an evidence and you will be disappointed and I will have only wasted your time.
That's the situation....
(today I am working from home so I had been able to write in the morning).

Thank you,
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

you will be disappointed

No need to project your own disappointment over here :) I am not disappointed in this moment, and this moment is all there is.

Fear serves to protect the imaginary self from harm. In this case, it protects “you” from changing and losing your ”humanity,” “your” memories, “your SELF”-expression.
But were they ever yours to begin with?

Life expresses itself - that's it! "We" are part of this expression. In some way, we get the idea that we are life and we do things such as writing, loving, caring etc.

Let’s be clear here… why would the absence of something that has NEVER existed cause a change in existing stuff? You probably believed in Santa when you were little. There was magic and joy, and love, and giving, and caring. When you realized that Santa is not real (I hope you did :) ), did Christmas change? Did the spirit of Christmas disappear or just the belief in Santa?

Sit with this fear and allow it to be there. Examine it carefully. See what it is really protecting and if it is necessary.

Please let me know what you find.



Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Hi Cheryl.

Fear serves to protect the imaginary self from harm. In this case, it protects “you” from changing and losing your ”humanity,” “your” memories, “your SELF”-expression.
But were they ever yours to begin with?

It seems that they are a kind of thoughts, yes they definitely are thoughts…so they do not belong to “me”. They appear in my mind.

Let’s be clear here… why would the absence of something that has NEVER existed cause a change in existing stuff? You probably believed in Santa when you were little. There was magic and joy, and love, and giving, and caring. When you realized that Santa is not real (I hope you did :) ), did Christmas change? Did the spirit of Christmas disappear or just the belief in Santa?

No, the spirit of Christmas didn’t change, just the belief on Santa. Existing stuff doesn’t change.

Sit with this fear and allow it to be there. Examine it carefully. See what it is really protecting and if it is necessary.

Please let me know what you find.

I found that this fear protects ideas, thoughts, images, nothing real. All this stuff define the idea of “me”.
Just ideas that pop out…this fear is not necessary!

❤️
Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,

If you look for the I, what is there?

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

Where exactly did you look?

What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything.

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Ciao Cheryl.

If you look for the I, what is there?

There is nothing physical because it’s a concept. For me “I” represents the sum of this body+this mind, it’s a huge container of aspect, behaviour, habits, experiences all related to this body-mind. It’s an abstraction but has a big meaning, just like saying “my life”.

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

I'm in trouble, I can't see this. I don't understand if it's a play on words: there isn't anyone who writes on the keyboard because the action of writing is performed by a series of automatic gestures of the body and mind on a device. But in any case there is a body that performs the action of writing, and this body belongs to me, not to my husband or my daughters for example. No experiencer: but these actions are made by these hands and there are sensations felt in these fingers. Tomorrow I will remenmber these actions…

Where exactly did you look?

I looked at the actions made to write these words, actions made by my hands typing on the keyboard. And I looked inside to see the thoughts that became words and the sensations and feelings.

What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything

.
I found thoughts and physical actions (hands typing) and sensations and a feeling of frustration.

❤️ Lucia

[CherylVT]

Dear Lucia,


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple
Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.
https://www.thebrandbite.com/wp-content ... pple-7.jpg

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.
Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.
This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.
Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Love,
Cheryl

[Lucia73]

Dear Cheryl,

I need some more time to complete the exercice of the Apple, my mind is a little confused about it and I am not fine tonight, I have a cold. I hope tomorrow after a good sleep I will feel better.
I’ll write you back tomorrow.
Thank you ❤️
Lucia