Feeling stuck and looking for guidance

[chii]

Very subtle mind overlay here. Do you see that as you reread it?

Yes

If the mind overlay can be seen when pointed out, what words here tell you the mind is overlaying pure seeing?

Shapes and imagery are concepts.

How would you describe this "field" of seeing in the most basic terms with the most minimal mind overlay?

A field of colours. But this seems to still be another concept.

If you don't entertain that doubt is there any incorrectness in the seeing itself?

No, "incorrectness" can't be found in the experience of seeing.

You say seeing just seems to be happening and its not controlled by a "me". How then could you not be doing it right?

Yes, the judgement of whether its right or not was just another thought.

Are you doing the seeing at all?

Seeing appears to just happen. Even just sitting still and staring at nothing in particular, it's changing without any control or intent (eyes moving and blinking).

What can you say about these 3 aspects of experiencing?

There doesn't seem to be a difference between them. Perhaps 'noticing' can be more widely applied to other senses.

What is this other sense?

Sorry, I meant the other senses such as feeling and hearing.

[Alless]

A field of colours. But this seems to still be another concept.

Yes Chii. You're absolutely right. Every word is a concept. A symbol. However we have no choice but to communicate with words. When we realize that they are an abstraction of reality we are starting to "wake up" to truth. Words do serve us as pointers and even then it is a challenge because of the layers of interpretation that are invoked.

So realizing words are but concepts or symbols and using them as pointers .......
What does the word "I" point to?



Does it point to anyTHING?




Does a baby have full awareness without the notion of a "me"




Can you SEE what this that we call a "me" might be?




As you LOOK can you see anything in DIRECT EXPERIENCE to support the notion that there is an independent separate "me"




Is there any difference in saying colour is a concept and believing that the word "I" is not a concept?



Write the word "I' and or "me" on a piece of paper. Does this making on the paper have ANY DIRECT association with what you truly are except in thought?

There doesn't seem to be a difference between them. Perhaps 'noticing' can be more widely applied to other senses.

The difference can be subtle but it has a profound affect in experience. Noticing is actually a movement, a function of the mind albeit a "primary" one. Noticing can be described as as a movement of attention. It seems to happen by itself. And so quickly followed by labelling and by narrative.
Tell me what happens as you narrow your attention by focussing it and letting it simply soften




When you notice anything turn your attention to what is noticing. What do you find when you LOOK "there"?




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[chii]

What does the word "I" point to?

"I" appears as a thought.

Does it point to anyTHING?

No, I can't find anything other than thoughts.

Does a baby have full awareness without the notion of a "me"

Yes a baby is fully aware without "me".

Can you SEE what this that we call a "me" might be?

It doesn't appear in the experience of seeing.

As you LOOK can you see anything in DIRECT EXPERIENCE to support the notion that there is an independent separate "me"

No, there doesn't seem to be

Is there any difference in saying colour is a concept and believing that the word "I" is not a concept?

Both are appearing as thoughts.

Write the word "I' and or "me" on a piece of paper. Does this making on the paper have ANY DIRECT association with what you truly are except in thought?

No it doesn't. Its an appearance in seeing followed by a thought.

Tell me what happens as you narrow your attention by focussing it and letting it simply soften

If I narrow my attention on something in the visual field, it feels like I'm looking from "my head".

When you notice anything turn your attention to what is noticing. What do you find when you LOOK "there"?

It doesn't seem like I can look there. There is just what's being noticed.

[Alless]

If I narrow my attention on something in the visual field, it feels like I'm looking from "my head".

Let your attention rest on something in the visual field and also pay attention to the feeling of looking from "my head".
Is there anything else that stands out about that feeling other than it's a feeling of looking from your head?



Are you looking from that feeling? Is that feeling actually "the source of the seeing"?



What happens if you don't label that feeling? Does the feeling change at all? Does anything about the experience change at all?



If there is no interpretation of whats happening at all. if you don't add any "meaning or conclusion" to what's being experienced, tell me what is experienced?



Now please pay very CLOSE ATTENTION to what's happening here. Just describe what you are seeing as you LOOK...
Where are you taking the "answer" from or other words what you are reporting here on the forum - are you reporting from thoughts or are you simply reporting what you are ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING?



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[chii]

Is there anything else that stands out about that feeling other than it's a feeling of looking from your head?

Not that I'm aware of.

Are you looking from that feeling? Is that feeling actually "the source of the seeing"?

I can't really find any evidence of it being the source of seeing.

What happens if you don't label that feeling? Does the feeling change at all? Does anything about the experience change at all?

The sensations are still appearing. It seems to change but also doesn't, I can't really explain it.

If there is no interpretation of whats happening at all. if you don't add any "meaning or conclusion" to what's being experienced, tell me what is experienced?

It appears to be a more uncontracted, unfiltered experience.

Now please pay very CLOSE ATTENTION to what's happening here. Just describe what you are seeing as you LOOK...
Where are you taking the "answer" from or other words what you are reporting here on the forum - are you reporting from thoughts or are you simply reporting what you are ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING?

It seems if I try to make sense of it and try to answer the question, it comes from thought.
But I'm not really sure how to describe it without referring to thought.
I can only say its seeing.

[Alless]

This is important to notice....
It seems if I try to make sense of it and try to answer the question, it comes from thought.
The mind has NO CAPABILITY to make any sense of this. Although there is this insistence just leave it and only LOOK. Just leave the insistence be.

We'll change tack a little now.

Let's now take this exercise. Take a cup for instance. Grab one and hold it in your hand.

Let your gaze settle on it. Let your attention be thoroughly absorbed by the colors. Do your best to avoid labeling in any way. Just let the tones, the complexities, the subtleness of the colors be SEEN for what they are.
What in particular do you notice about what is going on in this experience of SEEING?



Can what is seen be in any way accurately described so that someone listening or reading would know EXACTLY what you are experiencing?



As you are looking at the cup, notice its features. As you look at it notice what is happening in your experience.
Are there thoughts labeling what you see? A handle perhaps, the lip, the shape of it?



Is there any distinction between seeing, looking and noticing for you? What happens attention …….When seeing? When looking? When noticing?


Can you find some specific thing that we can call a "me" doing the seeing?



Watch thoughts as you consider who is seeing. Notice what happens to seeing as you consider this. Did the seeing change in any way or stop?



Now simply watch thoughts as you look at the cup.
As you start to watch thoughts and wait for the first thought to arise what happened?



Did you actually choose which thought arose first or did a thought just appear?



After a while of watching thoughts, what happens to them?




As you watch the thoughts does the experience of seeing the cup change in any way?




Now look for spaces between thoughts.
Focus on seeing in the spaces. They may be milliseconds, but notice them.
What happens in your experience as you attend to the spaces?




As this seeing is happening, ask yourself "Is there a seer or a seen within or without the seeing?"




Or is there only seeing?



When you finish seeing, do you then recognize that which we call a cup is a concept? A cup that has uses and takes up space, and need washing after use? A concept that includes shape, form, color, what it is intended to be used for………...but we aren't actually seeing it anymore. We look at it but recognize a vessel to contain something.

The "details" are all still there but are now typically veiled by our thoughts ABOUT the cup.

Now do this with a flower (or any other object) and see what is experienced.
What stands out for you?


Giving yourself time to really LOOK and FEEL into these questions is so important.

No need to rush. Just let me know if you need more time.

And as we continue please challenge anything that you feel is not clear in my responses.



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[chii]

Hi Alan,

I’d like to have another day or so to work with this if you don’t mind.

Thanks!

[Alless]

No problem Chii. Thank you for the heads up 😊

[Alless]

Hello Chii

How is it going?

Alan

[chii]

Hi Alan,

I'm really sorry for the late reply. I found myself stuck and feel like I'm missing something when you ask the questions

As this seeing is happening, ask yourself "Is there a seer or a seen within or without the seeing?"
Or is there only seeing?
What stands out for you?

I'm experiencing seeing and a whole bunch of thoughts and nothing in particular stands out.
I'm not really sure how to proceed.

[Alless]

Good to hear Chii

I found myself stuck

Good. This feeling of "stuckness" is typically part of this. And this that you report about being stuck gives you a good chance to see what "stuckness" is
So.........
WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THIS BUT LOOKING DIRECTLY......
Where are you stuck? Please be very explicit about your answer. When you truly LOOK without ANY interpretation or trying to figure it out you will SEE why you are feeling stuck.




You say "I am stuck"
Is there an "I" that is actually stuck?



Or is it just stuckness that is being experienced?

I'm experiencing seeing and a whole bunch of thoughts

Could "stuckness" it be found right here in this whole bunch of thoughts?



If you just let them be without any resistance to them or resistance to the experience of "stuckness" or believing you are "stuck" ...... what happens?



Now tell me in direct experience .....
Is seeing stuck?


Is hearing stuck?


Is feeling stuck?


Is smelling stuck?


Is tasting stuck?


If there is no stuckness in direct experience where is the only "place" you could ever be stuck?


If you didn't actually believe the thought "I am stuck" would you be still stuck?




And keeping at these inquiries consistently is so important. Let me know what is happening even though you may feel nothing much is happening because sometimes there is a key in what you report regularly which can be a vital clue



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[chii]

Where are you stuck? Please be very explicit about your answer. When you truly LOOK without ANY interpretation or trying to figure it out you will SEE why you are feeling stuck.

You say "I am stuck"
Is there an "I" that is actually stuck?

Or is it just stuckness that is being experienced?

Could "stuckness" it be found right here in this whole bunch of thoughts?

There doesn't seem to be an "I" that is stuck.
The "stuckness" being experienced is in thoughts such as
"I don't find anything..."
"I don't know what I'm looking for"
"What am I supposed to find?"
"This is frustrating..."
etc.

If you just let them be without any resistance to them or resistance to the experience of "stuckness" or believing you are "stuck" ...... what happens?

It's a stream of thoughts.

Is seeing stuck?
Is hearing stuck?
Is feeling stuck?
Is smelling stuck?
Is tasting stuck?

No they are all happening and can't be "stuck" or stopped.

If there is no stuckness in direct experience where is the only "place" you could ever be stuck?
If you didn't actually believe the thought "I am stuck" would you be still stuck?

It can only be in thoughts.
If I don't believe the thoughts about being stuck, there is no "stuckness".

[Alless]

If I don't believe the thoughts about being stuck, there is no "stuckness".

That's the truth Chii

Does seeing this bring with it any relief at all?




And even when or if there is some relief and even with seeing this, is there still a sense of being still "bound" somehow?




If there is any sense at all of still being stuck, of being bound, please check if there is a resistance to the fact that that "boundness" is being experienced. Feel into what's happening to see if there is ANY sense of "I don't want this" or "This shouldn't be happening" or "I'm sick of this" or any other form of what you might describe as resistance It can be so, so subtle.
What do you find when you feel into what's happening or whether this "resistance" is being experienced or not?




When you say "I feel stuck" when you LOOK WITHOUT THINKING can you find this "I" that feels stuck?



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[chii]

Does seeing this bring with it any relief at all?

Yes there is some relief from not believing the thought.

And even when or if there is some relief and even with seeing this, is there still a sense of being still "bound" somehow?

There is a sense of being stuck when attempting to search for an answer to this question.
Each time I come back to this question and look for a sense of being "bound", a different thought arises.

What do you find when you feel into what's happening or whether this "resistance" is being experienced or not?

It's not clear, there does seem to be resistance. There is discomfort in the body. And then it takes the form of distracting thoughts to take my mind off it.

When you say "I feel stuck" when you LOOK WITHOUT THINKING can you find this "I" that feels stuck?

No, without going to the thought, it just seems to be a sound appearing.

[Alless]

It's not clear, there does seem to be resistance. There is discomfort in the body. And then it takes the form of distracting thoughts to take my mind off it.

Feeling the subtlety of this resistance is important Chii. And yes, the mind rises up with distracting thoughts to take our attention off it.

As we go on just watch for this feeling of resistance and let me know when it happens if you are able to catch it.

Now I would like to come back to the cup exercise for you have another look at it as there are some really relevant aspects of experience to explore here. And please answer EACH question specifically. And this time around whatever happens let me know whether a response to a question is clear or confusing or frustrating or resistance to it or riddled with thoughts or whether some aspect is subtle or obvious - just tell it as it is

And we'll break into parts this time. So again take a cup and hold it in your hand.

Let your gaze settle on it. Let your attention be thoroughly absorbed by the colors. Do your best to avoid labeling in any way. Just let the tones, the complexities, the subtleness of the colors be SEEN for what they are.
What in particular do you notice about what is going on in this experience of SEEING?



Can you describe what is seen in any way accurately so that someone listening or reading would know EXACTLY what you are experiencing?



As you are looking at the cup, notice its features. As you look at it notice what is happening in your experience.
Are there thoughts labeling what you see? A handle perhaps, the lip, the shape of it?



Can you find some specific thing that we can call a "me" doing the seeing?



Watch thoughts as you consider who is seeing. Notice what happens to seeing as you consider this. Did the seeing change in any way or stop?




Giving yourself time to really LOOK and FEEL into these questions is important.

Did you try and figure any of this out by thinking about it or did you simply report your direct experience?



And as we continue please challenge anything that you feel is not clear in my responses.



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