Are thoughts the actual experience of the body?The actual experience of the body is just ‘experiencing’ itself. Mmm it is thoughts and visual appearances and sensations and sounds.
No they are not the actual experience of the body. when eyes are closed the body is just the field of awareness in which all sensations arise.Are thoughts the actual experience of the body?
There are thoughts about the body, mental images of a body. What is a body in direct experience when eyes are closed?
what comes up is a kind of yeah I know but it still isn't stabilised and I spend almost all of my day believing there is was and will be. There has definitely been a shift, but there is still much seeking. I do feel I have SEEN this, but I feel there is more inquiry and more looking to be done still. like you say a lot of conditioning. The sense of self is still strong.What comes up when you read this : there is no you, no separate self in any shape or form, it never was, it will never be.
Sure, there are colors, shapes and forms. We cannot deny the appearances.what about when the eyes are open though? i can see boundaries and edges.
Do you mean "believing" (in a mental level) or feeling ?what comes up is a kind of yeah I know but it still isn't stabilised and I spend almost all of my day believing there is was and will be.
I hear you : "I am sure that there is no separate self but I still behave like a separate self", this is a common experience on this process. You have seen the truth but it has not fully integrated into daily life. This is due to conditioning, old habits, vasanas. Don't force yourself, just BE KNOWINGLY AWARE all along the day whatever activities you are doing. Let everything arise without effort, without resistance and just let them come at the light then let them go, no commentary, no judgement. The arising could be emotions, feelings, old stories, traumas, conditioning (unconscious coming to light), ...There has definitely been a shift, but there is still much seeking. I do feel I have SEEN this, but I feel there is more inquiry and more looking to be done still. like you say a lot of conditioning. The sense of self is still strong.
Yes, more a feeling. But I think the belief might subtly still be there. I can only see when I look.Do you mean "believing" (in a mental level) or feeling ?
You have seen the truth but it has not fully integrated into daily life. This is due to conditioning, old habits, vasanas. Don't force yourself, just BE KNOWINGLY AWARE all along the day whatever activities you are doing.
I have only been able to manage a short walk outside today. I can't really explain what was going on. I wasn't able to focus properly there were alot of thoughts. I felt quite blank I was trying to look but nothing was coming. It felt like everything was just happening spontaneously. I'm not sure what I was meant to be looking for. Haha I spent a fair while staring at my chickens in the eye and it felt really clear to see the lack of a doer and how things were just happening. Sorry I feel like this response is lame ha. I think I may need more prompting.I invite you to go for a walk in nature or in a park and just be aware of what is going on. Come back with descriptions and feelings.
No not at all.Were you able to find and feel Ceylan in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
I'm not sure that 'it' is anywhere. it is just a label i use for this body and these thoughts collectively. Just a thought. No actual real substance.Where is it?
I didn't find anything. Just thoughts. Nothing I can touch or point to.What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
I can feel edges. Where the skin meets the air. Tingling, a vibration. These edges feel like they belong to Ceylan. Like they mark the boundary of 'me' and create a distinction between 'me" and the rest of experience that is not me.What sensations did you feel in your body that identified Ceylan (If any).
I can feel edges. Where the skin meets the air. Tingling, a vibration.
There is identification to the body which is called Ceylan, do you see this?These edges feel like they belong to Ceylan. Like they mark the boundary of 'me' and create a distinction between 'me" and the rest of experience that is not me.
No, it is just a sensation. yes I guess it is 'Ceylan'. haha I'm confused ceylan is just a label. so is 'you'/'me'. but sensation is just sensation. it is neither Ceylan or me.Yes, there is feeling of sensations : is a sensation Ceylan or you?
I see this, but it is not just the body that is called Ceylan. it also includes these thoughts and personality? there is an identification with all of it.There is identification to the body which is called Ceylan, do you see this?
The body is known. like a thought or a sensation.You have already seen that a body is a bunch of sensations. Is the body knowing or is it known?
no there is no boundary. just sound, it feels seamless.Is there any boundary between the sounds and the knowing (in the sense of awareness) of them?
no I cannot pinpoint without a label, or thought, well they are the same. to experience the sound in its purity there can be no label.Can you pinpoint the place where sounds are coming from without going to thoughts?
no if there was a boundary then it wouldn't work. the sensation is the knowing? the knowing is the sensation?Is there any boundary between the sensations and the knowing of them?
this one I'm struggling with. I feel like I know the answer is no. but if I just look at someone without thoughts a body is definitely there. there is also definitely a body here? i can see how the label body is not true and is made of thought. but that thought and that label are pointing to something that is undeniably there?Is there a body without going to thoughts?
Yes, sensation is not you nor Ceylan.No, it is just a sensation. yes I guess it is 'Ceylan'. haha I'm confused ceylan is just a label. so is 'you'/'me'. but sensation is just sensation. it is neither Ceylan or me.
How do you feel to see this?I see this, but it is not just the body that is called Ceylan. it also includes these thoughts and personality? there is an identification with all of it.
YesThe body is known. like a thought or a sensation.
Please, give the answer through direct experience.no if there was a boundary then it wouldn't work. the sensation is the knowing? the knowing is the sensation?Is there any boundary between the sensations and the knowing of them?
this one I'm struggling with.Is there a body without going to thoughts?
I feel lighter. identification with it is loosening.How do you feel to see this?I see this, but it is not just the body that is called Ceylan. it also includes these thoughts and personality? there is an identification with all of it.
no. i cannot find any edges only sensation. it feels like 'i'm' melting haha. This feels like everything is collapsing in on itself, all my ideas and beliefs about life.Please, give the answer through direct experience.no if there was a boundary then it wouldn't work. the sensation is the knowing? the knowing is the sensation?
Haha yes i agree!Struggling is in the thoughts, do you agree ?
it is colours and shapes, then a label is added to them. but the label isn't what 'it' is. the label is simply that, a label. the body with eyes open is just a visual appearance. i can see this clearly.Look at what is called a body with eyes open : is it more than colors and shapes?
I am not sure i understand this question. im not sure how it is imagined. wow this feels a little trippy. like everything just became 2d almost? like im just noticing the shapes and colours and how the tones give the feeling of 3d.Have you ever seen a body as it is imagined (a 3D body)? LOOK
im not sure how it is imagined. i think i can see what you are pointing to? i dont know how to explain it, its like reality is being dissected and instead of seeing just the label of things i am seeing it as what it is. A colour a shape a sensation a sound. and seeing how there are no boundaries between the sensation and the experiencing of the sensation there is only sensation no one to experience boundaries or edges. it is everything.Have you ever seen a tree, a vehicle, a building as it is imagined? LOOK
So there is definitely still seeking but also the knowing that seeking is futile and there is nothing to seek. In regard to my expectations, I was expecting to feel more of a relaxation, I thought there would be a clear shift too, not necessarily a big one but a definite before and after which I must say hasn't been experienced. I can not say with confidence I have reached any gate (I know it is gateless haha). I think maybe I need to do some practices daily to support in the seeing permeating more of my experience of life. There is still doubt, not a sure sense.Let me know if there is still seeking.
I have been making an effort to be knowingly aware as much as possible. It is difficult sometimes, especially in relationships i get caught up in the movement of life and the emotional reactivity that arises, the identifications with 'I' is still strong, though i have seen through, im not sure my belief about it has fully shifted. It still feels pretty rooted.I invite you to walk in nature or in a park and enjoy the new perspective, just BE knowingly aware.
Have you heard about the dog chasing his tail? He runs around and when he is tired, he sits down and notices that the tail is already here. Being aware (awareness) is here when it is acknowledged or not. During our dialog, I understand that you know that you are aware (meaning awareness is aware of itself). But there is an expectation about an event, a shift, a realization which will change the whole perspective instantly. Yes, this happens rarely but it is not the case for the most of us. I have seen many aha moments in your answers. In general, it is an unfolding where the sense of self becomes less solid as to say. It is due to unconscious old habits and conditioning which are still operating.So there is definitely still seeking but also the knowing that seeking is futile and there is nothing to seek. In regard to my expectations, I was expecting to feel more of a relaxation, I thought there would be a clear shift too, not necessarily a big one but a definite before and after which I must say hasn't been experienced.
I can not say with confidence I have reached any gate (I know it is gateless haha).
There is no you thinking, thoughts are coming and going. There is no need to practices, just BE KNOWINGLY AWARE. Enjoy arising and falling of all experiences : the 5 senses appearances, thoughts, feelings, emotions. Be neutral with all the arising and just let what is here to be here without resisting without catching. If there is resistance or wanting to catch something, just let these to be here and let them go.I think maybe I need to do some practices daily to support in the seeing permeating more of my experience of life.
Is something for a doubt more than a thought?There is still doubt, not a sure sense
Seeing the world in 2D is just an experience which is coming and going. The sole answer I can give about the nature of the world is : I don’t know. The visual perception of the world is what it is. If I have to explain, it will be a thought story : what scientist say, what is happening in the brain, or whatever. We cannot perceive the raw experience, without the job done by the brain. What is perceived is a conjugation of the job of the eye (the ear, the nose, …) and the job of the brain. When you look at some paintings, there are only a patchwork of colors but the brain looks for meaning, forms, shapes. It does not bear staying in not knowing.The last messages we exchanged when I was talking about things almost being 2D with just different shades tones and colours. I'm feeling confused, I said things seemed almost 2D when I looked clearly, which is still the case. But life isn't 2D? or is it ha? could you please give some clarification around this please
There is no need of an effort to be aware, just notice that you are aware. Now, when we are relating with people, it is difficult to be at a distance due to conditioning and old habits. Let things be as they are. When an emotion arises, say “who is feeling this” then look. When there is a feeling of a self, be with it and look : what is it made of? Is it a sensation, a thought?I have been making an effort to be knowingly aware as much as possible. It is difficult sometimes, especially in relationships i get caught up in the movement of life and the emotional reactivity that arises, the identifications with 'I' is still strong, though i have seen through, im not sure my belief about it has fully shifted. It still feels pretty rooted.
Users browsing this forum: Arirang, Google [Bot] and 244 guests
