Let's go!

[Ceylan]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand that the self, I, Me are just concepts and thoughts and do not actually exist. They can not be found anywhere other than in thought. LU supports those who wish to step into reality by guiding and pointing, helping us to look and see for ourselves.

What are you looking for at LU? I am looking for a guide to support me in reaching the gateless gate! I am ready to lay down the ‘seeker’ and step into truth. To see reality as it is not as I am perceiving it with these learned labels. I am looking for support in releasing old beliefs and structures that prevent me from seeing. I am looking for clarity and humility.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I am expecting guidance and support to meet me where I am at and point to where I need to look so that I can move past this seeming barrier of only understanding that the self does not exist conceptually. I am expecting that the guide can help me to know this in my direct experience, without doubt and allow the shift, however subtle it may be, into truth.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I embarked on this journey around 10 years ago, beginning with books and discourses from teachers such as OSHO and Ram Dass and some Buddhist teachers which initially sparked something deep within. My seeking then intensified after the death of my brother, I began experimenting with some plant medicines and psychedelics which loosened my sense of self, but none of them provided much more than glimpses or ‘experiences’ and though there were definitely realisations nothing really stuck or shifted. In 2020 I was initiated into transcendental meditation which I practised for about a year before sitting a 10 day vipassana retreat. I then switched to practising vipassana meditation for about a year, and sat another 3 day vipassana course. In the last two years I have become more involved in non duality teachings and stepped away from meditation as I had a baby (which has also made everything feel very real and personal again). I find I spend a lot of time reading or listening to non duality teachers but have a hard time actually conducting my own inquiry. My mind seems to go blank or extremely hazy. I am aware of some beliefs I have about awakening being extremely difficult or unobtainable in this lifetime and feel almost audacious reaching out for guidance as I feel it's not within my reach. I feel I may have gone too much into storylines there but I wanted to provide a clear view of where ‘i’ am coming from.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[warissem]

Hi Ceylan

I am glad to accompany you to see through the illusion of a separate self.

I am looking for a guide to support me in reaching the gateless gate! I am ready to lay down the ‘seeker’ and step into truth. To see reality as it is not as I am perceiving it with these learned labels. I am looking for support in releasing old beliefs and structures that prevent me from seeing. I am looking for clarity and humility.

LOOK AT what is written above : don't think about it, look at WHAT I am asking like you look at the sky and SEE its color.

LOOK AT the "I" which is looking to reach .... , which is ready, which wants to see reality as it is, ... Describe this "I" for me : I want to know its color, shape and form, its smell, its taste, ...

Looking for your insights

Nour

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour,

Thank you for your reply! I have just moved house and have no signal or internet right now this should be fixed over the next couple of days and I will be in contact as soon as it is sorted. I hope this is ok. Thank you for your patience!

Speak soon
Ceylan

[warissem]

Hi Ceylan

Waiting for your insights.

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour,

I have internet now, thank you for your patience!

LOOK AT the "I" which is looking to reach .... , which is ready, which wants to see reality as it is, ... Describe this "I" for me : I want to know its color, shape and form, its smell, its taste,

I feel alot of blankness after reading this. Like I have nothing to say. I know conceptually that 'I' don't exist. But I can't lie it feels really real. The 'I' I refer to is my body, my mind, my emotions and thoughts. Despite knowing that it's not real as an 'i' or 'self'. Though individually and separately I know they are real. It tastes off and feels frustrating

When you say

LOOK AT what is written above : don't think about it, look at WHAT I am asking like you look at the sky and SEE its color.

Im not sure I get it. I can look and see without my mind getting involved, then it all loses its meaning and it's just a screen and shapes and shades etc.

Fear of not staying the right thing is present. I want to be a good student ha I feel almost embarrassed to answer. And my mind kind of shits down and I feel a blankness and emptiness

Ceylan

[warissem]

Hi Ceylan

And my mind kind of shits down and I feel a blankness and emptiness

Blankness and emptiness is an ANSWER without a word. You were waiting to SEE words arising, the answer is given with no word. Even when you LOOK AT the sky, the answer is given with no words but there is a label "blue" or "cloudy" arising from nowhere.

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Nour

[Ceylan]

Blankness and emptiness is an ANSWER without a word

Yes, your right, thank you for the reminder.

How will life change?

Chop wood carry water. I imagine it will not change at all.

How will you change?

There will be less suffering and resistance to whatever is arising. Less clinging to things out of fear. I will stop searching and seeking for the next thing or for more. I will be open to each moment as it arises and present in the now with no clinging or aversion. I will remember freedom. I will Feel light and playful, open.

What will be different?

Nothing and everything. I will stop trying to change or fix myself or my environment. I will stop experiencing life so personally and instead see and experience each moment as it is.

What is missing?

Not sure what is meant by this question.
The need to protect and defend my 'self'. Fear of death. The anxieties that come with the illusion of control.

Ceylan

[warissem]

Hi Ceylan

Your expectations are quite realistic but ...

There will be less suffering and resistance to whatever is arising. Less clinging to things out of fear.

I will be open to each moment as it arises and present in the now with no clinging or aversion. I will remember freedom. I will Feel light and playful, open.

it could be the case but seeing through the illusion of a separate self is the beginning of the exploration.

I will stop searching and seeking for the next thing or for more.

Yes.

I invite you to let aside all your expectations and stand as not knowing to process with what is going on here. First, I invite you to be familiar with direct experience which is : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching (or sensations). Thoughts and concepts are used for communication here.

There is a big difference between BELIEVING that there is nothing to give up and SEEINg that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Nour

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour,

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference.

Yes this is very clear

seeing through the illusion of a separate self is the beginning of the exploration.

Yeah I am aware this will only be the beginning and that perhaps some of my expectations are ideals and/or may take time.

Ceylan

[warissem]

Dear Ceylan

What is arising as thoughts, sensations, feelings when you read this :
There is no you, no separate self, no controller of life, there nerver was, it will never be.

Sink deep in what is said, then come back here.

[Ceylan]

Dear Nour,
Sorry I haven't been in touch sooner. Holiday period was busy.

The thoughts arising: but it really feels like there is a me. I get this conceptually but my experience is very much that of being separate

There are alot of thoughts and they are quite fast it is all kind of turning Into blankness and emptiness at the same time.

When you say

sink deep in what is said

'the thought that comes is that I don't know how to sink into it. It feels like my brain keeps stopping everyime I try to think about it... But maybe sinking isn't about thinking haha??

I am experiencing some butterfly feelings in my stomach and the clear rise and fall of my chest as I breathe. I can feel alot of tenseness in my body.

I have been busy, but I have also avoided this and taken a while to respond because every time I have sat down to respond, this blankness/shut down kind of happens and I just read your message over and over. With what feels like nothing to say or rather not knowing how to articulate myself/experience/ what is.

It really feels like there's a me living life. I have repeated myself alot. Sorry

Ceylan

[warissem]

Good morning

The thoughts arising: but it really feels like there is a me.

Can you describe what this "me" is? Is it something that can be seen, touched, or found in experience? What exactly is this "me" made of?

I get this conceptually but my experience is very much that of being separate

What is separate from what? Look at your experience.
Are there boundaries between you and your experience here now?

There are a lot of thoughts and they are quite fast it is all kind of turning Into blankness and emptiness at the same time.

Interesting, Is this blankness and emptiness separate from being aware?
What is noticing this blankness?

When you say

sink deep in what is said

'the thought that comes is that I don't know how to sink into it. It feels like my brain keeps stopping everytime I try to think about it... But maybe sinking isn't about thinking haha??

Yes, the suggestion did its job. Do you see clearly that there is awareness of “I know” and “I don’t know”?
Do you see clearly that this “I” is just pretending to know or don’t know?
Can you allow that moment of blankness to be, without trying to make sense of it or change it? Can you rest in the simplicity of what’s left when all the mental activity subsides?

I am experiencing some butterfly feelings in my stomach and the clear rise and fall of my chest as I breathe. I can feel alot of tenseness in my body.

Can you simply observe these sensations as they arise, without identifying them with a separate "you"? Can you notice how they come and go, as just sensations in the field of experience?

I have been busy, but I have also avoided this and taken a while to respond because every time I have sat down to respond, this blankness/shut down kind of happens and I just read your message over and over. With what feels like nothing to say or rather not knowing how to articulate myself/experience/ what is.

Glad to know this. Can you notice if there is a part of you that wants to avoid facing this experience directly?
What do you think is being avoided?
Is there a fear or resistance to not being able to identify as "someone"?

Allow yourself to be in this “not knowing”, “blankness” without labeling it. Let me know about what is going on.

Please select each question using the quote function https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ
and give separate answers to each question. Take time for it.

Best for you

[Ceylan]

Dear Nour,
apologies for the delay.

Can you describe what this "me" is? Is it something that can be seen, touched, or found in experience? What exactly is this "me" made of?

This “me” I guess is this body, these thoughts, some of it can be touched, others felt. Me is made of textures and sounds and energy and, this body and these thoughts, these reflections. I dont really know how to explain what “me” is made of. Opinions and beliefs thoughts.

What is separate from what? Look at your experience.
Are there boundaries between you and your experience here now?

Seperate from everything, every sound, anything i can experience or observe and feel. There are boundaries. Wherer my fingertip touches the plastic of the key board. To feel or experience isnt seperation necessary. There is a boundary, my baby is laying on the bed next to me as i type this, and there are boundaries, our skin. But is this just content within the experience. You asked about boundaries between me and my experience. No it is right here. The experience. No seperation. Now i am looking for What is separate from what? I am not sure what either of the whats are.

Interesting, Is this blankness and emptiness separate from being aware?
What is noticing this blankness?

No haha. Its happening now haha, the blankness. It isn't separate from being aware.nothing is noticing it, it just is. Blankness, emptiness.
It feels like my brain crashes when these questions are asked ha. A power cut.

Do you see clearly that there is awareness of “I know” and “I don’t know”?

Yes. i can see this clearly.

Do you see clearly that this “I” is just pretending to know or don’t know?

Haha yes i think i just saw it. The “i” i am refering to is simply awareness. Which precedes being aware of ?? Ha brain crashing again. I dont know if that made sense?

Can you allow that moment of blankness to be, without trying to make sense of it or change it? Can you rest in the simplicity of what’s left when all the mental activity subsides?

Yes for a short while. It feels more like emptiness and fullness than blankness now, nothing to be blank in the first place.

Can you simply observe these sensations as they arise, without identifying them with a separate "you"? Can you notice how they come and go, as just sensations in the field of experience?

Yes i can simply observe them, yes i can notice how they are just coming and going. All arising within the field of experience. A feeling of profoundness is present and arising.

Can you notice if there is a part of you that wants to avoid facing this experience directly?

Perhaps. It feels scary. There is definately some resistance but it feels subtle and covert ha.

What do you think is being avoided?

Death. I feel like I have to give things up. What does it all look like from the other side?

Is there a fear or resistance to not being able to identify as "someone"?

Yeah because then how do things carry on. How does life get lived, how will my son be cared for, my relationships tended to?

Thank you
Ceylan

[warissem]

Good evening

You are doing a good job here. Some comments about what you said :

Can you notice if there is a part of you that wants to avoid facing this experience directly?

Perhaps. It feels scary. There is definately some resistance but it feels subtle and covert ha

.
You are on the right track. Just be knowingly aware : when there is resistance, just look at the bodily sensations without the label "resistance". Let me know about what is going on.

What do you think is being avoided?

Death. I feel like I have to give things up. What does it all look like from the other side?

There is no "I", no you, no Ceylan to give up things in the first self. As you said it in your post the "me" is a bunch of thoughts and feelings, sensations. You said that there is awareness of what is known and of what is not known. Now, can a thought be aware? Is a feeling or a sensation aware? Is there any achange when you have seen that Santa does not exist in reality?

Is there a fear or resistance to not being able to identify as "someone"?

Yeah because then how do things carry on. How does life get lived, how will my son be cared for, my relationships tended to?

Life is already taking care of itself right now. See that there was never a you, a separate self managing life or taking responsibilities.

Nour

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour,
Sorry again for the delay, I am home with Internet now so my responses will be more prompt! Thank you for you patience

Just be knowingly aware : when there is resistance, just look at the bodily sensations without the label "resistance". Let me know about what is going on.

Yes, knowingly aware. What is going is, Irritability and agitation, movement, unsettled a little chaotic. A tingling. Fear. resistance is fear. realising how ‘awakening’ is already here. Resistance is just a closing, turning away from it.
Whats going on is a feeling of urgency. Fear is arising, i am labelling it ha. I cannot let you know what is going on without labelling it? And if im just there with it i realise how close it is. I feel really afraid, fear keeps arising. Feels a little disorienting ha.

There is no "I", no you

Yes, no “I”. this seems to keep slipping ha

Now, can a thought be aware? Is a feeling or a sensation aware? Is there any achange when you have seen that Santa does not exist in reality?

No, a thought cannot be aware. Nor a feeling or sensation They arise within the field of awareness.
Seeing this.
I am not sure i understand the santa question. Only a change in belief. Belief that arises within the field of awareness, but whether santa exists or not, they are both just two different experiences playing out, within the field.?
Is this making sense. Im not sure.

Life is already taking care of itself right now. See that there was never a you, a separate self managing life or taking responsibilities.

I think this is starting to settle within me, in that I can see this. (I realise I am doing the 'i' and 'me' thing but it's tricky haha.) But then I feel baffled, because all this time I have felt like I have some kind of control. That I can make choices and do things that influence what will happen next. That is not so? There are just things happening. Nobody is in control no controller just things happening. And awareness of the things arising in the field. And that awareness isn't ‘mine’ it's just thought and beliefs that ‘i’ exist.


Thank you
Ceylan