When you ask how to do it, or you have doubts like "maybe I'm not doing this right...", do you see that all this is thought? Even the thought that inquiry doesn't make sense is a thought. You just believe something makes sense when you believe you have a solid grasp of it intellectually.
And yeah, you are waiting for something to happen. But this waiting is also a thought, no? "There has to be something here I'm not getting" "What'll it be like after I get it?" "I hope something happens if I give it time" "What am I supposed to look for?"
What if this is it? What if life's just gonna be like this until you die? What if there's nothing here for you to gain or find? What if nothing changes? How does that make you feel?
Guide request
Re: Guide request
When you ask how to do it, or you have doubts like "maybe I'm not doing this right...", do you see that all this is thought?
Yes, it’s all just thought, but if I was asking the question then scrolling through my phone, it would be missing the point of this right? On one hand I’m coming to terms and seeing that just about anything is a thought. Any word I use will be. Realizing that the other day even made me understand how the whole concept of "me” is just this thought loop/process. I’m sure that’s not the whole story, because I do still feel like I am Jake and this is my life, but I do at least see how that is just thought and belief. But ya, on the other hand I’m obviously not seeing all of this so clear.
Yes, it’s all just thought, but if I was asking the question then scrolling through my phone, it would be missing the point of this right? On one hand I’m coming to terms and seeing that just about anything is a thought. Any word I use will be. Realizing that the other day even made me understand how the whole concept of "me” is just this thought loop/process. I’m sure that’s not the whole story, because I do still feel like I am Jake and this is my life, but I do at least see how that is just thought and belief. But ya, on the other hand I’m obviously not seeing all of this so clear.
In one sense, I see that is a very strong possibility. This whole process right now seems like a subtracting with no addition. But ya also what if this is it? Nothing would change for me. Also a very real possibility and I would be feeling exactly how I feel right now and have been for as long as I can remember… just empty and dull I guess. I feel a little disappointed at that, but that will fade like everything else. I don’t know man, that kinda bummed me out hahahaWhat if this is it? What if life's just gonna be like this until you die? What if there's nothing here for you to gain or find? What if nothing changes? How does that make you feel?
Re: Guide request
Oh hey man. I don’t know if this ever happened to you but right when it feels like I’m on the edge, a ton of fear comes up like I’m about to die. Heart starts beating out of my chest, body feels like it’s about to burst open... It happened to me yesterday and I’ve always gotten stuck here, I thought i made it through yesterday but nothing happened and it started again. It’s a huge energy thing in my body, completely full and it feels like I just need to let go. I tried to let go completely but it’s so disorienting I can’t tell which part of my body is which like I’m all twisted up. So it’s not like the fear comes and I stop, I sit with it try to calm down, accept it, decide to let go and then try… but it’s like I’m not doing something right. Any advice?
Re: Guide request
What's the point of this?Yes, it’s all just thought, but if I was asking the question then scrolling through my phone, it would be missing the point of this right?
Yeah the 2nd part was just me using more thoughts to bum you out. How do you feel right now? Like in this current moment, is there any problem that isn't a thought? You just think of the possibility that things stay the same and it ruins your mood. You see the power thought and belief have? What gives it that power? What's wrong with the present moment, bar thought?
Also, I'm curious, what do you normally do when you experience negative emotion?
Re: Guide request
Don't try to let go. Don't try to calm down. Don't try to accept it.I tried to let go completely but it’s so disorienting I can’t tell which part of my body is which like I’m all twisted up. So it’s not like the fear comes and I stop, I sit with it try to calm down, accept it, decide to let go and then try… but it’s like I’m not doing something right. Any advice?
Just. Don't. Try.
Re: Guide request
Something along the lines of seeing the truth of the self/lack thereof, or life... I'm basing this off a belief right now I know, but I believe you're giving me the inquiry for a reason. I believe Ramana and all the other liberated people who prescribed it understood something that I dont right now. Just something tells me to trust you guys with this i guessWhat's the point of this?
Right now I cant pinpoint any emotion, just some feeling in the bodyHow do you feel right now? Like in this current moment, is there any problem that isn't a thought? You just think of the possibility that things stay the same and it ruins your mood. You see the power thought and belief have? What gives it that power? What's wrong with the present moment, bar thought?
No, no current problems
Im not sure there could be any problem that isnt a thought.
Yes, i need to dig into that some more, not sure what gives it that power... maybe the belief itself tied to some physical contraction? I'm gonna think about this for a while.
i guess only beliefs... hidden thoughts I need to investigate
Ok i'm gonna give it another shot. Did you get through it the first time? Weird how ordinary this seems to me now. A year ago I would have thought this was the most insane shit everDon't try to let go. Don't try to calm down. Don't try to accept it.
Just. Don't. Try.
Re: Guide request
Sorry forgot to answer this one
Normally I try to do that throughout the day, notice thoughts relationship to DE, if they have an effect on the other... doesnt always work out that way but thats what I try to do
I try to just feel how it feels. And notice the thoughts about it and how they affect the other.Also, I'm curious, what do you normally do when you experience negative emotion?
Normally I try to do that throughout the day, notice thoughts relationship to DE, if they have an effect on the other... doesnt always work out that way but thats what I try to do
Re: Guide request
Alright. Though, when you have intense emotions, don't try to intellectualise them. Just feel whatever it is without using thought or other distractions to try to weaken the feeling. It's kinda like orientating away from investigation and towards nothing. You just let go and surrender all the time to whatever's happening.I try to just feel how it feels. And notice the thoughts about it and how they affect the other.
NopeDid you get through it the first time?
Re: Guide request
Sorry I haven’t updated you man. I’m right on the edge, I’ll let you know when I make it through
Re: Guide request
Alright man have fun with that haha
Re: Guide request
So thursday night after your last comment I found a couple videos about the fear thing that I keep getting stuck on- https://youtu.be/dOvQVQa9YUM
https://youtu.be/cAtOTYFMZkc
Those described my experience exactly. Maybe if you run into anyone else getting stuck where I was, your advice about doing nothing and those videos were very good advice that I’m still using. Later that night when I laid down to let this energy in my body do its thing the fear barely came up that time. An experience began that I could not describe with words. Something from the edges of my vision was expanding and contracting and slowly closing in. It had been hours I was laying down letting this happen and at some point I drifted off to sleep.
The next morning I went to go pick up my kid from his mom’s house for the weekend. I stopped to get gas and walking in the gas station everything was more vivid. No thoughts just the feeling of walking, the sights and sounds. A profound happiness and peace came over me. Even thinking about it now makes me want to cry. It has been so long since I have felt happy… I can’t even remember the last time other than that, maybe when I was a kid?
I picked up my kid and had to hold back the tears and kinda just keep it together in front of him for the rest of the day. The energy stuff in my body was doing stuff on its own, it hasn’t stopped since then. Like really strong adjustments constantly that before this has only happened when I’m deep into meditating.
I think at a certain point I got involved in thoughts again. Maybe the idea of awakening, why is this feeling going away?, I should be awakened by now, then just back to my old way of thinking and being in the thought world. This peace and happiness went away and I spent most of the day yesterday like that being frustrated and feeling like I took a step back and this was no longer "progressing”.
Then last night laying down letting this energy stuff finish whatever the fuck is going on in my body I had another realization about thoughts. I thought about what you said last about what I do when I feel a strong feeling and you told me don’t even look back to thoughts. I think it kinda clicked. It doesn’t matter that I had seen words as made up, I was still so involved in this "world” of thought. Like in front of me is life… What is actually happening. Why am I living it in this world of thought and ignoring the actual experience in front of me? I immediately had some big shifts in my body that had been stuck for a long time.
Still feel like I’m on the edge of this… got past the fear part unless some more comes up at some point, but that’s ok. I see where I need to go from here
https://youtu.be/cAtOTYFMZkc
Those described my experience exactly. Maybe if you run into anyone else getting stuck where I was, your advice about doing nothing and those videos were very good advice that I’m still using. Later that night when I laid down to let this energy in my body do its thing the fear barely came up that time. An experience began that I could not describe with words. Something from the edges of my vision was expanding and contracting and slowly closing in. It had been hours I was laying down letting this happen and at some point I drifted off to sleep.
The next morning I went to go pick up my kid from his mom’s house for the weekend. I stopped to get gas and walking in the gas station everything was more vivid. No thoughts just the feeling of walking, the sights and sounds. A profound happiness and peace came over me. Even thinking about it now makes me want to cry. It has been so long since I have felt happy… I can’t even remember the last time other than that, maybe when I was a kid?
I picked up my kid and had to hold back the tears and kinda just keep it together in front of him for the rest of the day. The energy stuff in my body was doing stuff on its own, it hasn’t stopped since then. Like really strong adjustments constantly that before this has only happened when I’m deep into meditating.
I think at a certain point I got involved in thoughts again. Maybe the idea of awakening, why is this feeling going away?, I should be awakened by now, then just back to my old way of thinking and being in the thought world. This peace and happiness went away and I spent most of the day yesterday like that being frustrated and feeling like I took a step back and this was no longer "progressing”.
Then last night laying down letting this energy stuff finish whatever the fuck is going on in my body I had another realization about thoughts. I thought about what you said last about what I do when I feel a strong feeling and you told me don’t even look back to thoughts. I think it kinda clicked. It doesn’t matter that I had seen words as made up, I was still so involved in this "world” of thought. Like in front of me is life… What is actually happening. Why am I living it in this world of thought and ignoring the actual experience in front of me? I immediately had some big shifts in my body that had been stuck for a long time.
Still feel like I’m on the edge of this… got past the fear part unless some more comes up at some point, but that’s ok. I see where I need to go from here
Re: Guide request
Ok, don't take anything I'm about to write as truth. It's just labels, definitions, and mapping that can be helpful.
Insight: The falling away of belief in something
Awakening/Kensho: The 1st major insight. In the fetter system, this is the falling away of the 1st fetter.
Peak experience: An experience of bliss, oneness, non-duality, or whatever. It usually is the result of insight OR leads to an insight.
Don't get attached to the peak experience. It's just an experience. Yes, it was the first time you felt happy in a long time, but it's just a memory now, and chasing it will only lead you away from it.
People say to live in the present, rather than the past and the future. But where are the past and the future? They don't actually exist outside of thought. You're either living in thought or not.
My advice: Forget about the peak experience. It's only a memory now, only a thought. Chase thought, and all you get is more thought. Give up on feeling any type of way. Any chasing is thought, any trying is thought. What's here NOW?
What's here that's not a thought?
Insight: The falling away of belief in something
Awakening/Kensho: The 1st major insight. In the fetter system, this is the falling away of the 1st fetter.
Peak experience: An experience of bliss, oneness, non-duality, or whatever. It usually is the result of insight OR leads to an insight.
Don't get attached to the peak experience. It's just an experience. Yes, it was the first time you felt happy in a long time, but it's just a memory now, and chasing it will only lead you away from it.
You see how this is just thought? You're comparing your interpretation of your current experience with your interpretation of a memory and making conclusions that create these feelings. That thing in the gas station literally never happened, all you have is a memory of it, a thought. What's here NOW?This peace and happiness went away and I spent most of the day yesterday like that being frustrated and feeling like I took a step back and this was no longer "progressing”.
People say to live in the present, rather than the past and the future. But where are the past and the future? They don't actually exist outside of thought. You're either living in thought or not.
My advice: Forget about the peak experience. It's only a memory now, only a thought. Chase thought, and all you get is more thought. Give up on feeling any type of way. Any chasing is thought, any trying is thought. What's here NOW?
What's here that's not a thought?
Re: Guide request
Hey man. Didn’t mean to imply I was holding on to the experience… I knew it was an experience at the time. Just felt like something is coming. Like when I’m doing inquiry and my vision starts coming in from around the edges and body fills up… just kinda feels like something is coming I don’t know how else to describe it.
I ran into that fear barrier thing again last night. I just kept doing nothing, attention on the senses as much as I could. Next thing I remember I woke up this morning.
Since yesterday anytime I “snap back in” to the senses I see the edges of my vision closing in. The longer I stay out of thought and kinda focus on the senses the more it comes in.
No questions for now. I’ll keep you updated
Yes I saw that. Realizing that was a help and I haven’t been sucked into my old thinking habits again like that since then.You see how this is just thought? You're comparing your interpretation of your current experience with your interpretation of a memory and making conclusions that create these feelings. That thing in the gas station literally never happened, all you have is a memory of it, a thought. What's here NOW?
I ran into that fear barrier thing again last night. I just kept doing nothing, attention on the senses as much as I could. Next thing I remember I woke up this morning.
Since yesterday anytime I “snap back in” to the senses I see the edges of my vision closing in. The longer I stay out of thought and kinda focus on the senses the more it comes in.
No questions for now. I’ll keep you updated
Re: Guide request
Sounds good man keep me posted
Re: Guide request
Hey Jake how have things been going for you?
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