Hi Roxanne,
Yes please have another LOOK at the questions again, and please revisit the thought Gap exercise as well.
Finding the Gap Between Thoughts
This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.
Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.
1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.
Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought comes in.
This is how to look at thoughts:-
Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.
Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go, report what comes up please.
Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
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CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
-
chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Paul,
Who / what is looking for the gap? What is the gap?
If I want to only notice thought arising, not the content, but the content is the thought, what am I doing? What is being looked for?
In the looking, it feels like narration as I am looking for the gap. "Is that the gap?" "Is this thought over?" "What thought is arising?" More thought. If it seems like there is a gap, there is no gap because the thought "Is this the gap?" arises.Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.
Who / what is looking for the gap? What is the gap?
If I want to only notice thought arising, not the content, but the content is the thought, what am I doing? What is being looked for?
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CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Roxanne,
IS thought continuous or can you find the GAP in between, try this: Close your eyes take a few deep breaths until you feel relaxed in the body, ask yourself this question, what is my next thought?
Wait for the answer, Immediately there will be nothing in the space after you ask the question, for a few seconds there will be the GAP between thoughts, practice this and notice it, no story, repeat the question over and over each time waiting for the next thought each time noticing the gap. Do this until you are comfortable with seeing the gap.
Now if you can find in the body a Roxanne describe her using DE, if you can't find Roxanne in the body, is there just a LOOKING for the Gap which is just happening?
Very good you are noticing the thoughts arising and passing away, the Gap is just in between each thought, its very subtle and can be missed, which is why it feels like thought is one continuous story of "my life" or "I" or "self".In the looking, it feels like narration as I am looking for the gap. "Is that the gap?" "Is this thought over?" "What thought is arising?" More thought. If it seems like there is a gap, there is no gap because the thought "Is this the gap?" arises.
IS thought continuous or can you find the GAP in between, try this: Close your eyes take a few deep breaths until you feel relaxed in the body, ask yourself this question, what is my next thought?
Wait for the answer, Immediately there will be nothing in the space after you ask the question, for a few seconds there will be the GAP between thoughts, practice this and notice it, no story, repeat the question over and over each time waiting for the next thought each time noticing the gap. Do this until you are comfortable with seeing the gap.
Perfect question to ask, now LOOK, without thought stories, can Roxanne be found in the body sensations?Who / what is looking for the gap?
Now if you can find in the body a Roxanne describe her using DE, if you can't find Roxanne in the body, is there just a LOOKING for the Gap which is just happening?
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
-
chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Yes, this question makes the gap very obvious. So that, in just watching thoughts, I can see the gap. Like the fadeout between one commercial and the next.IS thought continuous or can you find the GAP in between, try this: Close your eyes take a few deep breaths until you feel relaxed in the body, ask yourself this question, what is my next thought?
Wait for the answer, Immediately there will be nothing in the space after you ask the question, for a few seconds there will be the GAP between thoughts, practice this and notice it, no story, repeat the question over and over each time waiting for the next thought each time noticing the gap. Do this until you are comfortable with seeing the gap.
It seems that she can be found there. I hear breathing, I see her hands typing, I think her thoughts. The thought arose that Roxanne is just a thought, or a series of thoughts, that protect the body, but that was not a look, it was another thought. [Which did make me think: If Roxanne is a thought, then is that thought thinking? I still don't know. This thinking is making something tired.]Perfect question to ask, now LOOK, without thought stories, can Roxanne be found in the body sensations?
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CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Roxanne,
The concept of the car,
Is there actually are car?
Steering wheel, motor, wheels, seats,doors, and so on. When all these parts come together it's labelled a car, but really a car is just a concept. Made up of parts that interact together to perform a functional outcome. Please read this:
When we are little children we learn to speak through labeling. At least this is how I remember.
Mum would ask - what is this?
I would say- this is a house
This is a car.
This is a window.
This is me.
Where is your nose?
Here is my nose, and I would touch it...
I have learned to label things and experiences and tested my limits and limits of my parents patience by throwing things, by saying no, by trying not to be conditioned. You know that little rebel age if you have kids.
So I learned the language and started using it, communicating with other people. One of most important words was me and mine: this is my toy, not my brother's.
No one has ever told me that 'me' is a word that is only useful in communication with others. Without others, there is no me, without I there is no them.
Somehow this belief in a me became stronger and took over, it became the central belief around which everything else was turning. It's like a belief, that earth is the centre of the universe, I became the centre of my world.
Until I looked. It really was just one look, it took a few seconds and all the search was over. The search for clarity, the quest of 'who am I?' was seen as cosmic joke.
There is no who.
There is nothing here in direct experience that is separate from experienced. Just this. Always now.
If you want to test this, simply do this little experiment that won't even take much of your time. All you need is 20 minutes, a pen & paper.
First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.
Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..
Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?
Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.
Lying in bed, hearing the rain, typing these words...
Again watch what is happening in the body.
Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other?
If so, which one?
What is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Your body knows. I is a label, not experiencer. Not a thinker, not a doer, not a hearer of rain. I is not what makes eyes blink and it is not a breather, it's a word, that is used for convenience of communication. If it's believed to be an entity, the mind is confused, the body is tensed up. Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?
Life is happening. Looking is happening. Getting lost in the story is happening. With or without label I.
What is not on automatic?
And do we really need to be enslaved by labels? After all, experience is what labels point TO.
The story goes on. The belief in story drops away. The story is way much more enjoyable without the fear that something can happen to this 'me' once it's clearly seen that there is no actual me. Confidence, grace, fearlessness, peace with what is starts to shine through as fear gets loosened.
Imagine that! Humans got screwed by labels. And look at world of fashion- labels are so important!
So much emotional pain, such strong desire to get home, when home is all there is. Right here- underneath all the labels. Here, now waiting to be recognized.
Look. Don't think, just look. "I" = "Roxanne"
The concept of the car,
Is there actually are car?
Steering wheel, motor, wheels, seats,doors, and so on. When all these parts come together it's labelled a car, but really a car is just a concept. Made up of parts that interact together to perform a functional outcome. Please read this:
When we are little children we learn to speak through labeling. At least this is how I remember.
Mum would ask - what is this?
I would say- this is a house
This is a car.
This is a window.
This is me.
Where is your nose?
Here is my nose, and I would touch it...
I have learned to label things and experiences and tested my limits and limits of my parents patience by throwing things, by saying no, by trying not to be conditioned. You know that little rebel age if you have kids.
So I learned the language and started using it, communicating with other people. One of most important words was me and mine: this is my toy, not my brother's.
No one has ever told me that 'me' is a word that is only useful in communication with others. Without others, there is no me, without I there is no them.
Somehow this belief in a me became stronger and took over, it became the central belief around which everything else was turning. It's like a belief, that earth is the centre of the universe, I became the centre of my world.
Until I looked. It really was just one look, it took a few seconds and all the search was over. The search for clarity, the quest of 'who am I?' was seen as cosmic joke.
There is no who.
There is nothing here in direct experience that is separate from experienced. Just this. Always now.
If you want to test this, simply do this little experiment that won't even take much of your time. All you need is 20 minutes, a pen & paper.
First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.
Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..
Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?
Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.
Lying in bed, hearing the rain, typing these words...
Again watch what is happening in the body.
Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other?
If so, which one?
What is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Your body knows. I is a label, not experiencer. Not a thinker, not a doer, not a hearer of rain. I is not what makes eyes blink and it is not a breather, it's a word, that is used for convenience of communication. If it's believed to be an entity, the mind is confused, the body is tensed up. Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?
Life is happening. Looking is happening. Getting lost in the story is happening. With or without label I.
What is not on automatic?
And do we really need to be enslaved by labels? After all, experience is what labels point TO.
The story goes on. The belief in story drops away. The story is way much more enjoyable without the fear that something can happen to this 'me' once it's clearly seen that there is no actual me. Confidence, grace, fearlessness, peace with what is starts to shine through as fear gets loosened.
Imagine that! Humans got screwed by labels. And look at world of fashion- labels are so important!
So much emotional pain, such strong desire to get home, when home is all there is. Right here- underneath all the labels. Here, now waiting to be recognized.
Look. Don't think, just look. "I" = "Roxanne"
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
-
chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Paul,
I am feeling an itch. I am scratching an itch. I am seeing my glass. I am breathing. I am blinking. I am rocking. I am typing. I am hearing the fan. I hear the fan stop. I am sighing. I am hearing a voice. I am hearing a motor. I see a cat. I see lights. I hear the door close. I am thinking about the exercise. I am feeling an itch again. I am scratching the itch. I am hearing a hum. I am tasting my drink. I am seeing the screen. I am typing words. I am rocking. I am thinking about laundry. I am thinking about a conversation. I am feeling a twinge. I am sniffling. I am hearing the chair move. I am feeling cold. I am thinking. I am thinking about dry skin. I am feeling antsy. I am thinking this is too long. I am thinking this is too long. I am rocking. I am hearing the lights hum. I am seeing my hands typing. I see the screen. I feel impatient. I feel bored. I think I am bored. I am seeing the ice cubes. I am thinking about this exercise ending. I am rocking. I am seeing the fireplace. I am feeling the damn itch again. I am seeing the clock.
I am sitting in a chair.First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.
I am feeling an itch. I am scratching an itch. I am seeing my glass. I am breathing. I am blinking. I am rocking. I am typing. I am hearing the fan. I hear the fan stop. I am sighing. I am hearing a voice. I am hearing a motor. I see a cat. I see lights. I hear the door close. I am thinking about the exercise. I am feeling an itch again. I am scratching the itch. I am hearing a hum. I am tasting my drink. I am seeing the screen. I am typing words. I am rocking. I am thinking about laundry. I am thinking about a conversation. I am feeling a twinge. I am sniffling. I am hearing the chair move. I am feeling cold. I am thinking. I am thinking about dry skin. I am feeling antsy. I am thinking this is too long. I am thinking this is too long. I am rocking. I am hearing the lights hum. I am seeing my hands typing. I see the screen. I feel impatient. I feel bored. I think I am bored. I am seeing the ice cubes. I am thinking about this exercise ending. I am rocking. I am seeing the fireplace. I am feeling the damn itch again. I am seeing the clock.
rocking, blinking, seeing, thinking, rocking, hearing, seeing, feeling, seeing, thinking, breathing, blinking, sniffing, sitting, rocking, typing, breathing, blinking, typing, seeing, hearing, thinking, itching, breathing, thinking, seeing, hearing, rocking, typing, hearing, smelling, thinking, feeling, thinking, thinking, seeing, hearing, feeling, thinking, blinking, breathing, itching, thinking, scratching, seeing, seeing, hearing, thinking, itching, thinking, seeing, hearing, hearing, thinking, seeing, thinking, thinking, rocking, seeing, sitting, hearing, thinking, tasting, thinking, tasting, feeling, thinking, feeling, hearing, thinking, thinking, thinking, seeing, seeing, itching, scratching, hearing, hearing, seeing, thinking, feeling, hearing,Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.
Lots of tightening. Lots of thought-story, and tightening.Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?
You know I want to say the one without labels is truer, but I don't see that.Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other?
If so, which one?
I don't feel a difference. Both exercises feel lifeless.What is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Yes. Dammit.Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?
Decisions. A thousand f-ing decisions.What is not on automatic?
I believe this. I do not see it.The story goes on. The belief in story drops away. The story is way much more enjoyable without the fear that something can happen to this 'me' once it's clearly seen that there is no actual me. Confidence, grace, fearlessness, peace with what is starts to shine through as fear gets loosened.
Yeah. So far, that's what I've got.Look. Don't think, just look. "I" = "Roxanne"
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CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Roxanne,
Try this please:
get a glass of water and take a drink, now ask, what is water without the label water? (describe Please)
Does the label of water affect the experience or just describe it?
I would like to go back to the thought questions and I want you to take a few minutes notice your breath and relax, and answer the questions when you are 100% clear that it's understood, please.
Use the question in the Gap exercise, What is my Next Thought and wait to see what comes.
Use this question at each answer to the questions below:
Thought exercise
Sit quietly for about 15 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are thoughts coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative, or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
What is a thought made off?
What can a thought do?
Can a thought think?
Just notice that thoughts are arising and passing.
Have another LOOKWhat is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
I don't feel a difference. Both exercises feel lifeless.
Try this please:
get a glass of water and take a drink, now ask, what is water without the label water? (describe Please)
Does the label of water affect the experience or just describe it?
That's OK, it's started and it happens when it happens, no expectations, you've had a lifetime of conditioning which needs some effort and a relaxation, for it to unravel.I believe this. I do not see it.The story goes on. The belief in story drops away. The story is way much more enjoyable without the fear that something can happen to this 'me' once it's clearly seen that there is no actual me. Confidence, grace, fearlessness, peace with what is starts to shine through as fear gets loosened.
I would like to go back to the thought questions and I want you to take a few minutes notice your breath and relax, and answer the questions when you are 100% clear that it's understood, please.
Use the question in the Gap exercise, What is my Next Thought and wait to see what comes.
Use this question at each answer to the questions below:
Thought exercise
Sit quietly for about 15 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are thoughts coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative, or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
What is a thought made off?
What can a thought do?
Can a thought think?
Just notice that thoughts are arising and passing.
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
-
chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Paul,
Last night, after doing the gap exercise and while preparing for bed, I got a glimmer of my teeth being brushed, that I was not particularly involved in the activity. This morning, I did the gap exercise again but all I got was gap. A few wisps of thought drifted past, but they didn't even give thought a good try. A shower happened, clothes were chosen, but "I" didn't really seem all that involved with the processes.
It is more "alive" without the label. I don't know if that's exactly right - alive - but it is more itself.get a glass of water and take a drink, now ask, what is water without the label water? (describe Please)
Does the label of water affect the experience or just describe it?
Last night, after doing the gap exercise and while preparing for bed, I got a glimmer of my teeth being brushed, that I was not particularly involved in the activity. This morning, I did the gap exercise again but all I got was gap. A few wisps of thought drifted past, but they didn't even give thought a good try. A shower happened, clothes were chosen, but "I" didn't really seem all that involved with the processes.
I still don't know.Where are thoughts coming from and going to?
NoDid you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
No, it seems not. It seems like thought is just happening. I was going to say "thought is thinking itself," because it looks like that, but I don't know.Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
NoCan you predict your next thought?
No, it doesn't seem so. But, right now it seems irrelevant because they're such wispy things.Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
No, but it doesn't seem to matter (right now), because thoughts seem harmless.Can you choose not to have painful, negative, or fearful thoughts?
No.Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
No.Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
I don't know. Nothing, I guess.What is a thought made off?
I don't know. Maybe think itself.What can a thought do?
This is making me laugh. I guess maybe it can.Can a thought think?
Yes.Just notice that thoughts are arising and passing.
-
CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Roxane,
Everything is starting to unfold slowly at first.
Lets try this exercise again and take it a little closer to the actual experience.
Take the glass of water and drink it, without labeling anything, without the word water without the words throat or glass or thirst , or anything to describe the water going down your throat. I want you to just feel in the sensations every little bit of the drinking, every part of the process. Feeling the cup in your hand, filling it up with the water, putting the glass to your mouth, and then the touch on your lips of the glass, the water sliding down the back of your throat, even the breath you take in just before your about to take a sip from the glass. Be so attentive to every action, and don't put any words or thought stories to any of the process, just feel.
Describe using Direct Experience only please
You are seeing this, keep noticing this every opportunity you can through out the day.
No thought, no Roxanne, in the gap, no Roxanne, in the gap cleaning your teeth, No Roxanne, but everything still happens, in fact everything is just HAPPENING, wouldn't you say?
Take Roxanne out of the picture and what do you notice?
Ask this question after any thought, is it TRUE?
Try this exercise please:
“I” labelling
Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet.
If that thought is about the self, put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.
Everything is starting to unfold slowly at first.
The experience is different without the label, what is happening is that you are having water without the conditioning of labels and beliefs.get a glass of water and take a drink, now ask, what is water without the label water? (describe Please)
Does the label of water affect the experience or just describe it?
It is more "alive" without the label. I don't know if that's exactly right - alive - but it is more itself.
Lets try this exercise again and take it a little closer to the actual experience.
Take the glass of water and drink it, without labeling anything, without the word water without the words throat or glass or thirst , or anything to describe the water going down your throat. I want you to just feel in the sensations every little bit of the drinking, every part of the process. Feeling the cup in your hand, filling it up with the water, putting the glass to your mouth, and then the touch on your lips of the glass, the water sliding down the back of your throat, even the breath you take in just before your about to take a sip from the glass. Be so attentive to every action, and don't put any words or thought stories to any of the process, just feel.
Describe using Direct Experience only please
Excellent, noticing the gap, takes you from believing the one seemingly continuous thought stream, which is taken to be your life, Roxanne, the self, the I, to seeing it for what it is, It is a story, they don't exist without the thought story, thought is just a function, and without it, everything still happens.Last night, after doing the gap exercise and while preparing for bed, I got a glimmer of my teeth being brushed, that I was not particularly involved in the activity. This morning, I did the gap exercise again but all I got was gap. A few wisps of thought drifted past, but they didn't even give thought a good try. A shower happened, clothes were chosen, but "I" didn't really seem all that involved with the processes.
You are seeing this, keep noticing this every opportunity you can through out the day.
No thought, no Roxanne, in the gap, no Roxanne, in the gap cleaning your teeth, No Roxanne, but everything still happens, in fact everything is just HAPPENING, wouldn't you say?
Take Roxanne out of the picture and what do you notice?
Beautiful, thoughts paper thin, but we spend our whole entire life believing them and being them, sit with this and LOOk at what comes up? report pleaseCan you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
No, it doesn't seem so. But, right now it seems irrelevant because they're such wispy things.
A thought is made up of stories and content, They are usually audio (you talking to yourself) or an image (a picture in the so called mind) that come and go, they arise from space and go to back to space, they are like the sound of a little bird tweeting a song, arising from nowhere and going to nowhere. Notice this.What is a thought made off?
I don't know. Nothing, I guess.
Ask this question after any thought, is it TRUE?
Haha, perfect description.No, it doesn't seem so. But, right now it seems irrelevant because they're such wispy things.
Try this exercise please:
“I” labelling
Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet.
If that thought is about the self, put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
-
chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Paul,
I got so much nothing from this exercise. I tried it all day. Very discouraging. Not fresh. Washing my hands was a slight improvement.Take the glass of water and drink it, without labeling anything, without the word water without the words throat or glass or thirst , or anything to describe the water going down your throat. I want you to just feel in the sensations every little bit of the drinking, every part of the process. Feeling the cup in your hand, filling it up with the water, putting the glass to your mouth, and then the touch on your lips of the glass, the water sliding down the back of your throat, even the breath you take in just before your about to take a sip from the glass. Be so attentive to every action, and don't put any words or thought stories to any of the process, just feel.
Describe using Direct Experience only please
I definitely would have said so this morning, but I feel back to the slog tonight. Roxanne looms large.n fact everything is just HAPPENING, wouldn't you say?
Take Roxanne out of the picture and what do you notice?
Tonight there is the feeling of anger and frustration again, and the thought is "I am wrong and stupid." I don't speak to Roxanne this way! Who is mad at what, and why? It's a thought-story, but why is it coming now? Yes, I can see that the anger / sadness /frustration evaporates without the story, but it comes back so easily.Beautiful, thoughts paper thin, but we spend our whole entire life believing them and being them, sit with this and LOOk at what comes up? report please
"Is it true I am stupid and wrong?" When I look, I can't find it.Ask this question after any thought, is it TRUE?
Most thoughts were about "I." Even when I thought they weren't, they were about how "I" felt about the thing.“I” labelling
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CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Roxanne,
You have come a long way since we started our dialogue together. You may not notice this but i do, I can see it in the way your dialogue with me has changed, there definitely will be doubt, the doubt is just thought stories and they will come thick and fast to defend the illusion. Its OK give yourself permission to just BE and let it just happen.
Describe feeling of anger and frustration using DE with no labeling just sensation.
When this anger and frustration comes back, Go to your body locate this, look for this in your Direct Experience,
What do you find?
LOOK, is it true? , and discover.
We can only use Direct Experience, because if we try to answer the question is it TRUE using thought then of course thought will say that thought is true, Thought can't destroy thought. So we have to go to the only thing that can be TRUE and that is our Direct Experience of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING.
I would like you to continue this water exercise over the next day, use it any where and feel in the body the action that you are taking and report back. Using water for this is always very helpful, washing hands in the shower etc. just notice the DE without story.
Tomorrow I will give you another exercise but for today just keep on this noticing, and report back Using DE language such as hot/ cold, light/heavy, contracted/ expanded , tight/relaxed, on 3 different times that you used DE to feel something, please
You have come a long way since we started our dialogue together. You may not notice this but i do, I can see it in the way your dialogue with me has changed, there definitely will be doubt, the doubt is just thought stories and they will come thick and fast to defend the illusion. Its OK give yourself permission to just BE and let it just happen.
That's OK, that's all that you were ready for, the idea is to just keep on noticing. What this exercise is about is for you to be in your DE with drinking water, just feeling life without Thought stories and Labels. You can practice this in any moment of your day, while you are sitting and waiting for something or washing your hands, just feel the sensation of water falling over your hands without any attached thought stories.I got so much nothing from this exercise. I tried it all day. Very discouraging. Not fresh. Washing my hands was a slight improvement.
Haha this is just a thought story, its OK to Notice this and let it go, thought happens, let go of the story/illusion.I definitely would have said so this morning, but I feel back to the slog tonight. Roxanne looms large.
OK so here is where we leave the head/thought stories and go to your Direct Experience.Tonight there is the feeling of anger and frustration again, and the thought is "I am wrong and stupid." I don't speak to Roxanne this way! Who is mad at what, and why? It's a thought-story, but why is it coming now? Yes, I can see that the anger / sadness /frustration evaporates without the story, but it comes back so easily.
Describe feeling of anger and frustration using DE with no labeling just sensation.
When this anger and frustration comes back, Go to your body locate this, look for this in your Direct Experience,
What do you find?
Perfect you identified the Story of Doubt, asked if it was true and when you LOOKED in DE not there. That's it, all you have to do, Doubt will continue and this is all that's required to see through another thought story."Is it true I am stupid and wrong?" When I look, I can't find it.
LOOK, is it true? , and discover.
All thoughts are about the "I" in the 1st 2nd or 3rd person. Strange so much energy associated with thought stories about an "I" that doesn't actually exist. and all we have to do is LOOk is this story true? and LOOK using Direct Experience.Most thoughts were about "I." Even when I thought they weren't, they were about how "I" felt about the thing.
We can only use Direct Experience, because if we try to answer the question is it TRUE using thought then of course thought will say that thought is true, Thought can't destroy thought. So we have to go to the only thing that can be TRUE and that is our Direct Experience of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING.
I would like you to continue this water exercise over the next day, use it any where and feel in the body the action that you are taking and report back. Using water for this is always very helpful, washing hands in the shower etc. just notice the DE without story.
Tomorrow I will give you another exercise but for today just keep on this noticing, and report back Using DE language such as hot/ cold, light/heavy, contracted/ expanded , tight/relaxed, on 3 different times that you used DE to feel something, please
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
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chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Paul. Thank you for the encouragement.
surprise, cold, sharpness
ache-y, pressure
When I notice physical things, they are locateable in the body, but thought-stories vanish when I look in the body. Is this the case? It seems to be.
With story: pressure, tightness, contractionDescribe feeling of anger and frustration using DE with no labeling just sensation.
I don't find it.When this anger and frustration comes back, Go to your body locate this, look for this in your Direct Experience,
What do you find?
Wow. Of course.Thought can't destroy thought.
cold, lightness, expansiveness; later: heavy, dullness.but for today just keep on this noticing, and report back Using DE language such as hot/ cold, light/heavy, contracted/ expanded , tight/relaxed, on 3 different times that you used DE to feel something, please
surprise, cold, sharpness
ache-y, pressure
When I notice physical things, they are locateable in the body, but thought-stories vanish when I look in the body. Is this the case? It seems to be.
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CarefulDog88
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:04 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Hi Roxanne,
Keep LOOKING in the body every time you feel reactionary in your day to day.
LOOK again, when you are without thought story and in DE in the body where is the "Self", if it vanishes when you look in the body?
Mind labelling experience
Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?
For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example:
I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.
Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.
Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.
For example:
Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.
(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)
At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
That's OK Frustration and anger or any emotion for that matter will be represented by a contraction/strong sensation in the body, usually in the solar plexus or chest, sometimes in the neck, but it will be there all there time and intensifies when you fall into these emotional states (sensations + thought stories)I don't find it.When this anger and frustration comes back, Go to your body locate this, look for this in your Direct Experience,
What do you find?
Keep LOOKING in the body every time you feel reactionary in your day to day.
Amazing right, this thought story that is you, the self, the I, Me, My, vanishes when you go to the DE in the body.When I notice physical things, they are locateable in the body, but thought-stories vanish when I look in the body. Is this the case? It seems to be.
LOOK again, when you are without thought story and in DE in the body where is the "Self", if it vanishes when you look in the body?
Mind labelling experience
Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?
For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example:
I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.
Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.
Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.
For example:
Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.
(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)
At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
With Loving Kindness
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
Paul
What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.
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chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
Paul, I thought I had submitted my response to the last exercise two days ago, but I don't see it here. Let me re-do it. Unless you prefer I do it another way.
Roxanne
Roxanne
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chillyrodent
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am
Re: Couldn't get it, couldn't forget it
I don't know about "truer." The second part is more immediate, less filtered.1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
The experience is here. More of what it is.2. What is here without labels?
Labels affect the experience! In the first part of the exercise, I felt pressured, rushed. I had "too much to do." So much doing. In the second part, there was just the experience, not the doing. I wasn't under pressure, the experiences were just happening.3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
The body was tight and constricted in the first half. In the second, it was relaxed. Nothing to do.4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
I'm glad the lapse was just my technical error, and not you being unwell. Sorry just the same.
Roxanne
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