open to understanding

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

How do you feel to see that there is no "I" needed for things to happen?

"I'm" not concerned but "I" don't feel enlightened, either. They're just things happening.

"The fingers are aware of the touch of the keys. Stiffness arises and fades away in the body."

Are the fingers aware?

No, there is just awareness of the sensations of touch.

Is there a frontier, a separation between activities and the knowing of them?

Yes. The separation is the awareness which is noticing activities.

Is there awareness of thoughts? Does it need an effort?

There is awareness of thoughts. It is effortless.

... is there a you directing attention? Look.

No. There is no "I" directing attention. Attention is where it is and it moves. "I" cannot say how attention is directed or why.

Looking forward to your observations.

Kind regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Good morning

I'm" not concerned but "I" don't feel enlightened, either.

There is no I, no you to be enlightened, there is just "being aware".
What is "enlightened" in your own words?

They're just things happening.

Yes, can you be unaware?
Can you change something to "what is" here now?

Is there a frontier, a separation between activities and the knowing of them?

Yes. The separation is the awareness which is noticing activities.

Then, there is awareness noticing activities and the activities, is that what you mean?
Now, there is a field of direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations, noticing thoughts. All these activities are known (in other words there is awareness of these happenings). Take for example seeing of a tree : there are colors and shape and the label "tree". This seeing is happening. The knowing of this seeing is happening. Is there seeing happening without being aware of it?
Is there a difference between seeing and being aware?
Is there a difference between hearing and being aware?
OR
Different words are used to point to the same event?

Ponder on these questions when looking at direct experience.

There is awareness of thoughts. It is effortless.

Yes, are thoughts belonging to you or they are just passing like clouds?

No. There is no "I" directing attention. Attention is where it is and it moves. "I" cannot say how attention is directed or why.

What is attention outside of thoughts?

Best for you

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

There is no I, no you to be enlightened, there is just "being aware".
What is "enlightened" in your own words?

Bad choice of words in my reply. When I said that "...'I' don't feel enlightened.." I meant that the fact that there is no 'I' needed for things to happen didn't feel like any kind of revelation. It seems like a mundane fact that won't impact how 'I' relate to the world in any way.

My understanding of what 'Enlightened' is, though, is extremely limited. It seems obscure and difficult to achieve and is not something I'm actively seeking.

... can you be unaware?

Yes. When thought appears awareness fades.

Can you change something to "what is" here now?

Can you rephrase the question? I don't understand this bit.

Is there seeing happening without being aware of it?

Yes. It is peripheral awareness - my body still takes in the data from whatever is being seen and processes it (which allows me to walk without falling over, for example), but awareness can be elsewhere at the time - perhaps of sounds, smells, tastes, touch or in thought.

...are thoughts belonging to you or they are just passing like clouds?

Thoughts just pass - they arise, are with me momentarily then fade away.

What is attention outside of thoughts?

Simple awareness - noticing but not needing to label or define whatever is happening.

Looking forward to your observations.

Kind regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Hi Colin

Bad choice of words in my reply. When I said that "...'I' don't feel enlightened.." I meant that the fact that there is no 'I' needed for things to happen didn't feel like any kind of revelation.

Yes, it is a great point. Because there was never a you, an "I" in the first place, before the beginning of this dialogue. LU helps to recognize the evidence.

It seems like a mundane fact that won't impact how 'I' relate to the world in any way.

Knowing that there is no you, is just seeing through a belief, it does not change anything.

My understanding of what 'Enlightened' is, though, is extremely limited. It seems obscure and difficult to achieve and is not something I'm actively seeking.

Let's be clear about "I" first before going ahead in the investigation :
What is this "I" which wants to be enlightened ? Point your finger to IT and LOOK.

.. can you be unaware?

Yes. When thought appears awareness fades.

Dig on these questions :

Is there awareness of thoughts?
Is awareness of appearances different from awareness of thoughts?
Is awareness of confusion different from awareness of clarity?

Can you change something to "what is" here now?

Can you rephrase the question? I don't understand this bit.

I mean : can you change what is happening here now?

Yes. It is peripheral awareness - my body still takes in the data from whatever is being seen and processes it (which allows me to walk without falling over, for example), but awareness can be elsewhere at the time - perhaps of sounds, smells, tastes, touch or in thought.

We can speak about peripheral perception, yes but here you are confusing "being focused" and "awareness". Do you see the difference between "focus on" and "being aware"?
To focus = paying attention = concentrate

Thoughts just pass - they arise, are with me momentarily then fade away.

Can you pinpoint this "me" and describe it?

What is attention outside of thoughts?

Simple awareness - noticing but not needing to label or define whatever is happening.

Yes, great.

Code: Select all

[quote]Can you change something to "what is" here now?[/quote] Can you rephrase the question? I don't understand this bit.

I mean : can you change what is happening here now?

Best for you

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

Let's be clear about "I" first before going ahead in the investigation :
What is this "I" which wants to be enlightened ? Point your finger to IT and LOOK.

Perhaps 'I' here is ego. It wants to achieve, be recognized etc.

Is there awareness of thoughts?
Is awareness of appearances different from awareness of thoughts?
Is awareness of confusion different from awareness of clarity?

There is being lost in thoughts when everything else fades to the background - this seems to be the same as the ego.
There is (rarely) awareness of thoughts which observes thoughts without being attached to them.

By 'awareness of appearances', do you intend to convey recognition of objects?

'Awareness of confusion' has a painful emotional aspect as 'I' seek to be clarity. Perhaps this is ego, again.
'Awareness of clarity' has a pleasing aspect - perhaps also ego.

... can you change what is happening here now?

No. What is happening is happening.

"... Thoughts just pass - they arise, are with me momentarily then fade away."
Can you pinpoint this "me" and describe it?

"Me" seems to be a need to attach to something and be defined by it - to be made concrete/permanent.

Looking forward to your observations.

Best regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Good morning

What is this "I" which wants to be enlightened ? Point your finger to IT and LOOK.

Perhaps 'I' here is ego. It wants to achieve, be recognized etc.

This answer is not given through direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching (or sensations). During this investigation, there is a need to LOOK AT direct experience, SEE the answer and write it back here. Remember the example about the color of the sky.

There is being lost in thoughts when everything else fades to the background - this seems to be the same as the ego. There is (rarely) awareness of thoughts which observes thoughts without being attached to them.

It is better to say "there is awareness of thoughts", it is not "something" which observes : it is the verb "being aware".
Do you agree with this?
There is no you to be attached to thoughts, there is only focusing on thoughts instead of focusing on sensations or other appearances. There is a continuous practice I invite you to do : when you are lost in thoughts get back to sensations of the body and rest there. Following the flow of thoughts is like pursuing the wind. Just remain in place.

By 'awareness of appearances', do you intend to convey recognition of objects?

I mean the field of the five senses : sights, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations.

'Awareness of confusion' has a painful emotional aspect as 'I' seek to be clarity. Perhaps this is ego, again.
'Awareness of clarity' has a pleasing aspect - perhaps also ego.

You have heard about ego, can you pinpoint the ego in direct experience?
What is painful emotion outside of thoughts?
What is a pleasant emotion outside of thoughts?
LOOK.

No. What is happening is happening.

Yes, good.

"Me" seems to be a need to attach to something and be defined by it - to be made concrete/permanent.

My question was : Can you PINPOINT this "me" and DESCRIBE it?
Like you pinpoint to a chair, your foot, ...

Best for you

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

What is this "I" which wants to be enlightened ? Point your finger to IT and LOOK.

In terms of direct experience, there is nothing to want to be enlightened.

It is better to say "there is awareness of thoughts", it is not "something" which observes : it is the verb "being aware".
Do you agree with this?

Yes.

There is a continuous practice I invite you to do : when you are lost in thoughts get back to sensations of the body and rest there. Following the flow of thoughts is like pursuing the wind. Just remain in place.

The quote is added here as reminder of this beautiful practice - I will endeavour to observe sensations to escape thought when needed.

You have heard about ego, can you pinpoint the ego in direct experience?
What is painful emotion outside of thoughts?
What is a pleasant emotion outside of thoughts?
LOOK.

I cannot locate the ego in direct experience.
A painful emotion usually coincides with an unpleasant bodily sensation.
Similarly a pleasant emotion usually coincides with an pleasant bodily sensation.

Can you PINPOINT this "me" and DESCRIBE it?

No. 'Me' does not exist when looking for it through direct experience.

Looking forward to your observations.

Kind regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Good morning

You have done good observations. Here is an exercise for you : it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Best for you

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Experiencing sensations/activities without using 'I / me' seems more accurate. There is no 'I' seeing/hearing etc. Things are happening and being observed.

2. What is here without labels?

Can you clarify this, please?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

When experiences are labelled 'I', desire arises to interfere - to stop an itch, to worry about a pain etc.
Without identifying with sensations there is less inclination to 'fix' anything.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Without labelling experiences with 'I', experiences seem deeper/more defined.

Looking forward to your observations.

Kind regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Good morning

What is here without labels?

Can you clarify this, please?

I mean : what is the experience without labels?

This is an exercice to practice many times during a day before you come back with what is going on.

Forget all you know about spirituality, enlightenment, advaita, or whatever. Don't go to thinking when you do it, stay in direct experience, eyes open.
There is a habit to say : I see, I hear, I walk, I speak, I do so and so. You agree with me that "what is done" can be known in direct experience (what is seen, heard, smelt, tasted, touched or felt).

Exercice : sit down or lay down eyes open. Say loudly "I see". Repeat it 2 or 3 times to be familiar with the voice and discard any thinking. Then say "I" loudly and at the same time LOOK at the place from where the voice is coming from(the throat, the chest, the mouth) and see what is there. Immediately say loudly "see" when you raise your head and see what is there.

Best for you

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

Exercice : sit down or lay down eyes open. Say loudly "I see". Repeat it 2 or 3 times to be familiar with the voice and discard any thinking. Then say "I" loudly and at the same time LOOK at the place from where the voice is coming from(the throat, the chest, the mouth) and see what is there. Immediately say loudly "see" when you raise your head and see what is there.

When looking at where the voice is coming from, there is no 'I' there - there is the place the voice comes from.
When saying see, there does not seem to be an active act of 'seeing', but rather, merely observing what is already there..

Looking forward to your observations.

Best regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Good morning

Good. Go for a walk in nature or in a park and just be knowingly aware : colors, shapes, sounds, sensations, ... a thought passing by.
Is there Colin, a separate self involved in what is going on?
Is a you making things happen?
Is life just flowing or is there an entity separate from what is here now?

Is there still seeking ?
If so, what is missing?
If not, are you ready to answer to the final questions and end this dialog?

Best for you

[ColinS65]

Hi Warissem,

Go for a walk in nature or in a park and just be knowingly aware : colors, shapes, sounds, sensations, ... a thought passing by.
Is there Colin, a separate self involved in what is going on?
Is a you making things happen?
Is life just flowing or is there an entity separate from what is here now?

There is no separate self involved. Things are happening independently.
There is only what is here now.

Is there still seeking ?
If so, what is missing?

There is seeking. What's missing is awareness of what can be seen/heard/touched/smelt/tasted - too much focus is on thought.

Looking forward to your observations.

Kind regards,
Colin.

[warissem]

Good evening

There is seeking.

OK, what are you seeking ? Elaborate on your answer, write back what is arising with no restriction.

What's missing is awareness of what can be seen/heard/touched/smelt/tasted - too much focus is on thought.

Being aware of thoughts is the same awareness of colors, smells, tastes, sounds and sensations. Your five senses are operating and there is knowing of this : are you aware of these words on the screen ?
Are you aware of the sounds around? When you raise your head, aren't you aware of the colors around?

Awareness is not "something" to acquire, it is already here, ordinary awareness. It needs only to be acknowledged.

Seeing is happening and there is knowing of it. In other words, you know that there is seeing. You know that there is hearing, etc ... This knowing is not a concept, it is "experiential", an ordinary consciousness, presence, aware presence.

Let me know about what is going on.

Best wishes

[ColinS65]

Good evening.

what are you seeking ? Elaborate on your answer, write back what is arising with no restriction.

A revelation of some form, I guess. The knowledge that there is no 'I', seems rather flat, rather mundane, just a statement of fact, but not something that changes anything in my life.

Let me know about what is going on.

When 'I' remember to just observe (see/hear/feel etc. - just notice what is occurring (including thoughts)) there is a calm sense of pleasure in even the most simple of experiences. When 'I' get caught up in thought, all this is lost. It is getting lost in thought that is disappointing.

Looking forward to your observations.

Kind regards,
Colin.