You mention "first person perspective'". I'm understanding that as meaning the same thing as "me noticing". Do I understand correctly?. There feels like there is a space between ‘me’ (first person perspective) and my thoughts and feelings.
I think I have a handle on this one.Is a thing found to be doing noticing? Or is it more like noticing (of thoughts and feelings) happens and then there's an assumption that "I notice"?
That's great work! Yes, of course that's right.. think I have a handle on this one.
This is exactly what happens.
Things arise spontaneously and they are immediately noticed and recognised. There is no separation between something and the noticing.
But there is the assumption though that there is someone behind phenomena looking at it all though and seeing it.
I think it’s more than just thought. There is a feeling and perspective here that “I” am the one viewing everything.It's not so much thought, per se, that creates this illusion but labelling, language, or the content of thoughts, (what thoughts are ABOUT). References to ,"me" or "I' of course, are obvious references to a fixed entity
I understand the labelling and referring but there is a stubborn feeling and view that there is an “I” watching all this.A major part of your inquiry has to do with recognising this labelling and referencing. Is there actually a real, 'separate" "self" here right now in immediate experience? Was there ever?
I'd like to suggest an exercise to do with use of language that reveals quite a lot about the "self" illusion. Are you up for that?
Ok. There can certainly be energetic sensations that appear along with thoughts. Do you notice that?. I think it’s more than just thought. There is a feeling and perspective here that “I” am the one viewing everything.
Yes. I understand. By the way it's you who have to do the necessary looking into all this in order to really notice that there is no self. Nobody can do that for you.. I understand the labelling and referring but there is a stubborn feeling and view that there is an “I” watching all this.
I don’t think I have seen through the illusion. I think I still only understand this from the intellectual level.
Yes I notice the energetic sensations. When a thought comes up, a feeling is created and the feeling can feel like a self or solid.Ok. There can certainly be energetic sensations that appear along with thoughts. Do you notice that?
Yes any thoughts of “me” and “mine” have a strong quality and is felt in the head and chest.I understand that there appears to be an "I" that seems "stubborn" and that there are energetic sensations that go with thoughts. These sensations, you might notice them, may be experienced somewhere in or around the body? They tend to "lend weight" to thoughts, especially thoughts about "me".
Yes I notice this.These energetic sensations are often mistaken for a "me", an entity, often imagined to be hanging out in the body or in the head. Do you notice this?
The exercise makes things feels fresh and new. Everything feels less seperate. It feels lighter without assuming an ‘I’. But still strong belief comes in saying there must be a me then it is felt in the chest area.Now, having done that, look at each sentences in turn and on the other side of the line write it again but differently. This time, simply omit any reference to 'self', so that each sentence is subtly rephrased. For example, "I see the door" becomes "Seeing the door'. "I am thinking" becomes, simply "Thinking".
Notice how this feels and anything you notice about it.
Yes. Right. Feelings / sensations can seem to "lend weight" to the assumption that "I'm here" . There is the fact also that experience is very much going on all the time, whether that's thoughts or sensations. But notice how feelings seem to bolster the idea of "me".. Yes I notice the energetic sensations. When a thought comes up, a feeling is created and the feeling can feel like a self or solid.
. The exercise makes things feels fresh and new. Everything feels less seperate. It feels lighter without assuming an ‘I’. But still strong belief comes in saying there must be a me then it is felt in the chest area.
Yes another thing that comes up for me is that the voice in my head sounds like my voice most of the time although it can be changed. That also lends itself to the illusion.It can take some time and looking to really see how the 'solid self' impression works, that a combination of habitual thought-patterns associated with energetic firings-off of feelings tend to perpetuate a 'solid self'.
I find this too general and broad for me. Do you have any specific exercises I can do to shed light?The job is to get to the bottom of this. Is there actually a separate self, 'inside a body', or 'inside a head', sitting in a control room somewhere, looking through video cameras, pressing buttons and pulling levers to control things that are 'separate' and 'outside' If so, find this entity.
This is something for you to look at. so as to see what's going on. I could give an answer but I'm not here to give you my views. I'm here to challenge you to take the necessary step of looking. The question of permanence is interesting.. Is this because there is a feeling of permanence that lends itself to the illusion of a self?
Good work! Whose seriousness is this?. Regarding sensations yes I have been looking into that. Sometimes thoughts come up that trigger negative and stressful emotions. They create a tension and heaviness which makes it seem as though the thought and story should be taken very seriously.
Could that have something to do with the same labels appearing in speech as in thought? Labels such as "I", "me", "my", "mine", "theirs" "yours" ?. Yes another thing that comes up for me is that the voice in my head sounds like my voice most of the time although it can be changed. That also lends itself to the illusion.
It's absolutely specific , an invitation to look for a "you". That's what you need to do. Nobody else can do it for you. It's actually not vague or complicated but it does require you to take that look.. I find this too general and broad for me. Do you have any specific exercises I can do to shed light?
Sounds aren’t permanent, sensations aren’t permanent, sight always changes, same with smell, emotions and thoughts. What gives the sense of permanence is a belief in permanence and is the always being here in this body, sensing things. This lends to the sense “I am” and “I exist”. Also memories and thinking project a subject of experience. All of this together generates a stubborn belief that there is a self here.This is something for you to look at. so as to see what's going on. I could give an answer but I'm not here to give you my views. I'm here to challenge you to take the necessary step of looking. The question of permanence is interesting.
The seriousness is for the “me in thought.”which sends a reaction to the body, generates emotions and is perceived by something. I am wondering what is it that perceives these things.Good work! Whose seriousness is this?
I have been looking but I’m finding it difficult to just look as I’m not sure where to direct my attention. The mind gets easily overwhelmed and distracted because I’m not sure which way to turn or what to do.t's absolutely specific , an invitation to look for a "you". That's what you need to do. Nobody else can do it for you. It's actually not vague or complicated but it does require you to take that look.
Thank you for telling me that Harry. Is there some anxiety about this? Sometimes, it happens quite often (but not always) , there can be some apprehension or fear. If you find that's the case do let me know because it could be significant and we might need to properly address it so that you can feel relaxed.. Apologies it’s taken me some days to get through these. I’m not going to lie I feel these questions are quite challenging and I’ve felt resistance along the way.
Yes, that's a good description of how the illusion of self seems "strong" or "real". But it doesn't point to anything tangible, seeable, or hearable in reality. You're right about the role of thinking and memory and the projection of an imagined subject of experience. But now look;. Is there an experiencer of experience?. What gives the sense of permanence is a belief in permanence and is the always being here in this body, sensing things. This lends to the sense “I am” and “I exist”. Also memories and thinking project a subject of experience. All of this together generates a stubborn belief that there is a self here.
Sometimes language its self enshrines an idea making it seem quite sacrosanct and real. But try this out; what if we were to subtly change the words here from "there is a stable witness" to "there is witnessing" ?. For some reason I keep also coming back to there is a stable witness.
Can the thought "me" pick up a rock?. The seriousness is for the “me in thought.”which sends a reaction to the body, generates emotions and is perceived by something
There is often confusion at this stage. Don't worry too much. What you are looking for is real evidence for a separate, unchanging self. Look anywhere in experience that could seem to harbour a self.. I have been looking but I’m finding it difficult to just look as I’m not sure where to direct my attention. The mind gets easily overwhelmed and distracted because I’m not sure which way to turn or what to do.
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