New Member - Wanting a Guide

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

Thanks for doing this. Let's have a look at what happened.

ok,,, how long ? 1 minute? time is in front of me on the PC :)


tv sound
footsteps
cough sound
plate rattling
doctors appointment to take my daughter now time 3.07pm, apt. 3.30pm

how long ?

This is the experience of thinking.

1 minute?

This is the experience of thinking.

time is in front of me on the PC

This is a visual experience (you see the clock)

tv sound
footsteps
cough sound
plate rattling

These are all sensory experiences. No thinking followed.

doctors appointment to take my daughter now time 3.07pm, apt. 3.30pm

This is thinking.

From DE you have already said that sensory experience is real. And you have said that thinking is not real.
1. What makes thinking not real?
2. Why is it not real?

3.What is the difference between sitting and experiencing a sound, and sitting and experiencing a thought?

4. Are both not experiences?

5. Why is one experience real and one experience not real?

time is in front of me on the PC

6. Look at the clock on your computer tell me where is the point of separation between 'you' and the clock.
7. Where do you end and where does the clock begin? Answer this question from the direct experience of seeing the clock.

Okay Anusha. Now is the time to put some effort into this. You don't have to force anything. But I want you to keep this in mind for the day, rather than 1 minute. ;-)

8. I want you to keep look at thoughts that pop up during the day. If you end up following a thought train then tell me why the experience of following the thought train is not a real experience.

I have numbered the questions so it is easier to trace my questions with your answers.
Have a nice day,

d

[annaaiyar]

Hello d,

From DE you have already said that sensory experience is real. And you have said that thinking is not real.
1. What makes thinking not real?
2. Why is it not real?

D, to answer 1 & 2 is knowledge and Memory which is gathered information which is again not "NOW", experience / action is "NOW' not these information :) 1. Thinking is always projections from the past or future, mind chatter is getting information from memory... which is NOT real. Thinking happens but once this illusion is seen, we are not fooled by it anymore.. one can just laugh and watch the thoughts come, stay for a little and then vanish. Every thought no matter how good or bad they may feel, or at the time of the experience that the body produces bringing past memories into the present... it comes and it goes... it cannot stay... and the more is simply watched without adding fuel/energy it has no sustainability therefore will diminish ... D, these are all knowledge, 1. & 2. or wisdom that came after simply watching how "thoughts" works... how impermanent they are.... for No 1 and No 2 one can never give a DE experiential answer as to "WHAT and WHY" questions...

3.What is the difference between sitting and experiencing a sound, and sitting and experiencing a thought?

sitting and experiencing a sound is happening in the NOW and sitting and experiencing a thought? is also happening in the NOW if we just watch the thought and simply "BE" but if we go along with the thought itself then the NOW is lost and either we are in the past or future which is not real... (again these are words not in DE)

4. Are both not experiences?

yes

5. Why is one experience real and one experience not real?

When in action one can never involve in thought... thought occur only 1 split second before the action starts or finishes... not in between because in action there is no "self" doing... "self" comes by a thought ... either before or after :) isn't it?

time is in front of me on the PC

6. Look at the clock on your computer tell me where is the point of separation between 'you' and the clock.

only at the time of "thinking" the time... it is really hard for me to put into words truly :), in the moment just only seeing... what it sees or who sees does not happen :), identification is lost.. but with saying "it 7.30pm" the separateness comes in to play...

7. Where do you end and where does the clock begin? Answer this question from the direct experience of seeing the clock.

sounds weird but that is how it is from DE... nothing... for a split split second (time unknown) then identification with "time" comes and knowledge of "time oh it's 8pm" comes in a thought ...

Okay Anusha. Now is the time to put some effort into this. You don't have to force anything. But I want you to keep this in mind for the day, rather than 1 minute. ;-)

8. I want you to keep look at thoughts that pop up during the day. If you end up following a thought train then tell me why the experience of following the thought train is not a real experience.

following up thought train does not happen for too long for me, if you know what I mean. Thought can longer fool me nor it has energy to go on and on trains as the awareness comes and bang it stops and dissolves…

Thank you and Have a nice day,

Anusha

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

This is a fantastic post. I really appreciate the level you have gone to explain yourself.

3.What is the difference between sitting and experiencing a sound, and sitting and experiencing a thought?

sitting and experiencing a sound is happening in the NOW and sitting and experiencing a thought? is also happening in the NOW if we just watch the thought and simply "BE" but if we go along with the thought itself then the NOW is lost and either we are in the past or future which is not real... (again these are words not in DE)

I couldn't have said this in a more perfect way. Thinking is also an action, it is a real experience. The content of thought is a story. If you live your life by I should be awareness, I shouldn't be thinking, then you have dualism and tension.
If you have a thought and are aware of it, can you find the separation between awareness and a thought?

4. Are both not experiences?

yes

Perfect. Don't deny your experience. This is what we want to look at.

7. Where do you end and where does the clock begin? Answer this question from the direct experience of seeing the clock.

sounds weird but that is how it is from DE... nothing...

Can you experience 'nothing'? Describe the experience to me.
Is there a separate 'self' experiencing 'nothing'?

for a split split second (time unknown) then identification with "time" comes and knowledge of "time oh it's 8pm" comes in a thought ...

Is there a 'knowledge' separate from the thought "it's 8pm" Is there a separate 'me' that has this knowledge? Is 'knowledge' just a thought?

Thought can longer fool me nor it has energy to go on and on trains as the awareness comes and bang it stops and dissolves…

Where is this 'me' that thoughts can fool?
When awareness comes along and bang it stops..... is there a 'me' that is no longer fooled?
Is awareness a 'me' that is separate from thoughts?

Okay Anusha, keep it going :-)

d

[annaaiyar]

Hi D,

This is a fantastic post. I really appreciate the level you have gone to explain yourself.

Same to you :) for all your help...

If you have a thought and are aware of it, can you find the separation between awareness and a thought?

Not when the thought is in action :), when the thought comes awareness pick up and the thought then vanishes ... otherwise it picks only half way, but when awareness comes again the thought vanishes... no one is trying to by force control the thoughts... D, you said in an earlier post "you watch your thoughts"??, it is similar :)

Can you experience 'nothing'? Describe the experience to me.
Is there a separate 'self' experiencing 'nothing'?

nothing is also an experience, that is all just like seeing, watching, thoughts etc... nothing else... so in action there is no self.. everything is simply experiences happening in the NOW ....

Is there a 'knowledge' separate from the thought "it's 8pm" Is there a separate 'me' that has this knowledge? Is 'knowledge' just a thought?

knowledge' just a thought an experience... but in day to day activities one needs to knowledge otherwise how to operate?

Where is this 'me' that thoughts can fool?

"me" is also a thought, no where.. just an experience

When awareness comes along and bang it stops..... is there a 'me' that is no longer fooled?

no not a separate self...

Is awareness a 'me' that is separate from thoughts?

awareness is not a "me",

ME is body, my feelings, my thoughts, my activities, my thinking, my doing, my seeing, my hearing etc.
this is false.. "How do this is false"? the wisdom that knows it is false... this is the same query I asked several posts ago :) many people thinks "ME" and WISDOM are two separate things... I don't know ... because both are illusions and awareness.separate self.wisdom... only action / experience in the present moment when totally observed in it all the awareness/self/small self/big self/wisdom all not operating...

THanks da

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

So, I feel we are starting to go around in circles a little bit. I would like to get us back on track.

It seems to me that you have a strong experience of 'no thought'. That is great for you, but it has nothing to do with our enquiry here. In fact I need you to use thought to help 'see' that there is no separate self/entity.

If I give you an exercise to do, and this exercise uses thought, and you say "Sorry but no thought happened", then we can not get to the result of the exercise.

I understand when through awareness thoughts 'self-liberate'. This in itself is a fantastic thing. However if you are still left with a separate self identity then for the purpose of this enquiry you need to meet me and engage.

If you are attached to the experience of 'no thought' and you don't engage then I can't help you. If you think that thinking is the enemy, then we can't go further. The last while has been getting you to see that thinking is part of experience, in this way it is okay.

I am sure you know the saying... 'in a beginner's mind there are many possibilities... in an expert's there are few'.

I need you to come with an open mind and engage in the enquiry honestly.

Are you ready to do this?

If you are then answer the following.

There is no self at all, no manager, no controller, no doer, thinker, watcher, none as in zero. All there is is life flowing freely, as one movement of totality, that includes all.

What thoughts, sensations, feelings come up? If there is fear, what feels threatened?

Thank you,

d

[annaaiyar]

Hi D,

There is no self at all, no manager, no controller, no doer, thinker, watcher, none as in zero. All there is is life flowing freely, as one movement of totality, that includes all.

Can you please explain this in detail...

Thank you
Anusha

the rest I noted..

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

Let's break it down:

As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

And finally:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

There is no right or wrong answer here. I just want to see what the situation is now.

I look forward to your answers,

d

[annaaiyar]

Hi D,

Thank you for your email. I sent you a PM

Regards
Anusha

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

Did you get my reply in messages?

d

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

I have my doubts whether the messages are working well, so I have copied my reply to you here:

Hi Anusha,

I am not sure if there is some message missing. As I don't understand exactly what you intend to tell me.

I think it is great you want to be a guide.

It is obvious that you have a deep level of experiential understanding. May I ask what is your history until this point? Who have you studied with?

I myself am a student of Dzogchen.

The LU way of seeing through a separate self is quite fantastic and it is different from all I have studied before. It hasn't replaced my other interests, in fact it has aided it.

The question remains, do you see through the illusion of self?

Would you like to continue with the questions in the thread?

All the best,

Diarmuid.

[deezer]

Hi D,

Thank you for your email and sorry for the late response.

May I ask what is your history until this point? Who have you studied with?

Yes sure, I come from Christian and Buddhist backgrounds. Buddha's Teachings has inspired me to see reality as is. Awakened to the "no self", but talking about the experiences and clinging onto them is futile. No "state" is permanent nor there is anyone to "attain" any level/s :) but still the "self" operates. Lots of "falling away", old habits / conditioning wiping out from time to time... wisdom arising... these kind of things.. but then again you might ask "to whom does it arise", yes to "NO ONE"... but I guess I am not operating 100% 24/7 on a "NO SELF" PERMANENT atmosphere and I don't think that it is possible to EGO to dissolve fully as if there is no slightest "ego"/"self" operating how would the body know it's hungry ??? when it needs food for energy, the only way it can translate is by way of a "thought" to get the hands to grab food. But when the eating happens "I don't say to myself, I am now eating"... oh I have not lost "total" no self... fully... but have experienced twice the "no self" the mind sort of introverts and comes back...

There is no "separate self" operating, controlling, watching etc etc that is 100% right... but as mentioned earlier the "ego" or "centerness" is still operating in this body for basic daily operations. To get into Internet the memory recalls the password... not my password even thought one may say it.. but other than that other unwanted rubbish is not recalled on memory, in fact it has this wisdom to know what to keep and what to get rid of :) hard to put into words.. memory operates in it's own natural way... old unwanted little memories are completely wiped out now... I simply cannot recall.. is this normal? has that happened to you?

What next? do you think :anusha: should do?

Many thanks D
Anusha

[deezer]

Hi Anusha,

Okay, you have had experiences. Fantastic. These experiences mean you have expectations of what seeing through the illusion of the separate self will be like. These expectations are totally getting in the way of any progression here.

What next? do you think :anusha: should do?

Anusha should do exactly what she agreed to do. Drop expectations and answer the questions honestly.

If you don't answer the questions then how can we progress?

If you think you know already, then why are you here?

Anusha with guidence I can guarantee you that you will see the illusion of a separate self. Once you see it you will know it. You will not forget it.

Do you want to continue? Will you post everyday? Can you drop your expectations? Will you do every exercise and answer every question without fail?

I am waiting for your commitment,

Diarmuid

[annaaiyar]

Hello Diarmuid

//Anusha with guidence I can guarantee you that you will see the illusion of a separate self. Once you see it you will know it. You will not forget it. //

I read the above many a times...

The eye opened...

Many thanks D, will stop now...

[deezer]

Anusha,

How has the eye opened?

d

[annaaiyar]

Hi D,

//Anusha with guidence I can guarantee you that you will see the illusion of a separate self. Once you see it you will know it. You will not forget it. //

with this sentence...

Anusha