I is burning

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:30 pm

Hi Joseph,
Hi John!

Things are good I suppose :). Lately I very much enjoy to be contemplative, and like to talk the minimum I can. Words appear to me as too brute, even words in thought form. I like to feel the energy inside that keeps doing its thing, very subtle, and less and less Joseph claims authorship for what is being perceived. It's funny to watch how the imaginary walls that kept me from smiling are falling in slow motion. That's a thing I can tell you.

So, how do we do now from now on? Do I keep posting every couple of days or what do you propose?

Thank you John
Be good to shift to daily posting again. You ok with that?

So, now Joseph, give me your response to the statement that there have never been, is, or ever will be, a separate "I", a "Joseph" running the show.

Thanks!
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:20 pm

Hi Joseph,
Be good to shift to daily posting again. You ok with that?
Ok. Let's see what keeps coming up.
So, now Joseph, give me your response to the statement that there have never been, is, or ever will be, a separate "I", a "Joseph" running the show.
That it is completely true. That the separate I only seems to exist when being unquestioned and not looked into the reality of it. Now I don't exist. Past and future don't exist but in the form of imagination, so that rules out the existence of me forever and ever. That is a curious phenomenon. I as I don't exist, that is clear now, because everything is in a single movement, there is no puppeteer and no puppet, and this talking is just an expression of that. Everything is a play of apparent contrast: also the confusion, the clarity, but everything is ... I have no words to say what it is. All is an spontaneous expression, time and causality adds to the illusion, and each phenomenon can be more or less identified with its temporary form. The entity's apparent separate existence is only real because the entity believing in its own separate existence, we could say. I is a castle built in the air, that feels disconnected from the ground -whatever that means. Also, the language. It doesn't help for the enquiry on the reality of the self. I could try to talk without using the word I now, but I don't see the point in over complicating things. It's enough just to be aware I think.

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:57 pm

Hi Joseph,
Hi Joseph,
Be good to shift to daily posting again. You ok with that?
Ok. Let's see what keeps coming up.
So, now Joseph, give me your response to the statement that there have never been, is, or ever will be, a separate "I", a "Joseph" running the show.
That it is completely true. That the separate I only seems to exist when being unquestioned and not looked into the reality of it. Now I don't exist. Past and future don't exist but in the form of imagination, so that rules out the existence of me forever and ever. That is a curious phenomenon. I as I don't exist, that is clear now, because everything is in a single movement, there is no puppeteer and no puppet, and this talking is just an expression of that. Everything is a play of apparent contrast: also the confusion, the clarity, but everything is ... I have no words to say what it is. All is an spontaneous expression, time and causality adds to the illusion, and each phenomenon can be more or less identified with its temporary form. The entity's apparent separate existence is only real because the entity believing in its own separate existence, we could say. I is a castle built in the air, that feels disconnected from the ground -whatever that means. Also, the language. It doesn't help for the enquiry on the reality of the self. I could try to talk without using the word I now, but I don't see the point in over complicating things. It's enough just to be aware I think.
Cool.

And what has changed Joseph, since the beginning of our inquiry together, in the experience of life? Could you share what's different.

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:55 pm

Hi John,
Hi Joseph,
And what has changed Joseph, since the beginning of our inquiry together, in the experience of life? Could you share what's different.
Less worries about what's gonna happen. Less recurring to memory. No guilt about doing nothing if that's what arises. Ability to be more present with what its happening. Emotions or thoughts can appear but I don't automatically believe them and have a less grasping power. Less resistance. Resistances are the only way I can still find a me in the present, and they are slowly falling like leaves from a tree in autumn. A growing trust in simple authenticity is here. More dreams, dreams almost every night, like films. A better enjoyment of rest. Less apetite. Funny thermal feelings. Silence now can be a very fulfilling experience.

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:38 pm

Hi Joseph,
Hi John,
Hi Joseph,
And what has changed Joseph, since the beginning of our inquiry together, in the experience of life? Could you share what's different.
Less worries about what's gonna happen. Less recurring to memory. No guilt about doing nothing if that's what arises. Ability to be more present with what its happening. Emotions or thoughts can appear but I don't automatically believe them and have a less grasping power. Less resistance. Resistances are the only way I can still find a me in the present, and they are slowly falling like leaves from a tree in autumn. A growing trust in simple authenticity is here. More dreams, dreams almost every night, like films. A better enjoyment of rest. Less apetite. Funny thermal feelings. Silence now can be a very fulfilling experience.
Would you say you have seen through the illusion of a separate self, "I", "Joseph" running the show?

WIth best wishes,
John

p.s. have to ask you about "funny thermal feelings". :) Ahem, more details. :D
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:03 pm

p.s. have to ask you about "funny thermal feelings". :) Ahem, more details. :D
Hehe. I dunno. Now I'm feeling cold and hot at the same time. Sometimes my limbs get very cold, sometimes very hot, the innards have they heat dance too. And today I feel like spending two days in bed. I feel active and tired at the same time... And like getting better and getting sick simultaneously. Nauseous and hungry. Lately everything is mixed up.

With my girlfriend is funny too. I didn't told this before but I'm living this process living with her in her house. Although I've not shared this conversations with her she knows I'm going through some rediscovering process. This couple of weeks is the longest number of days we have spent together in a row. The things that comes up in relationships visits us too. It's not easy, and it isn't difficult either. I see her as a real and beautiful companion in this moment. My beautiful mirror. Frustrating if there is opposition, heart warming if there is welcoming. There are laughs and there are cries, understandings and misunderstandings. There is a going outside of the comfort zone and a new recognition of trust for both us. And each and every day that passes, there is less smell of drama and more fresh smell. :) A little rollercoaster of maduration.

So in regard to your question in bold:
Would you say you have seen through the illusion of a separate self, "I", "Joseph" running the show?
I feel I have to sit with this question.

Something wants to avoid to say yes. There is a resistance in the no. The yes is the simple truth. Joseph is in the no, but I'm not there... Yes, I've seen through the illusion of Joseph running the show.

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:02 am

Hi Joseph,
p.s. have to ask you about "funny thermal feelings". :) Ahem, more details. :D
Hehe. I dunno. Now I'm feeling cold and hot at the same time. Sometimes my limbs get very cold, sometimes very hot, the innards have they heat dance too. And today I feel like spending two days in bed. I feel active and tired at the same time... And like getting better and getting sick simultaneously. Nauseous and hungry. Lately everything is mixed up.

With my girlfriend is funny too. I didn't told this before but I'm living this process living with her in her house. Although I've not shared this conversations with her she knows I'm going through some rediscovering process. This couple of weeks is the longest number of days we have spent together in a row. The things that comes up in relationships visits us too. It's not easy, and it isn't difficult either. I see her as a real and beautiful companion in this moment. My beautiful mirror. Frustrating if there is opposition, heart warming if there is welcoming. There are laughs and there are cries, understandings and misunderstandings. There is a going outside of the comfort zone and a new recognition of trust for both us. And each and every day that passes, there is less smell of drama and more fresh smell. :) A little rollercoaster of maduration.
Relationships with those closest are the greatest mirrors and teachers. :)
So in regard to your question in bold:
Would you say you have seen through the illusion of a separate self, "I", "Joseph" running the show?
I feel I have to sit with this question.

Something wants to avoid to say yes. There is a resistance in the no. The yes is the simple truth. Joseph is in the no, but I'm not there... Yes, I've seen through the illusion of Joseph running the show.
It's fun Joseph, as life, as awareness, to feel the basic goodness everywhere in the simple things - rain, wind, touch, seeing. Taking the labels off another "person", and seeing them in a kind of majesty of the unknown. Poetic I know, but hey, it's late. :) And you may get a feeling for what is being pointed to.

We'll catch up tomorrow night.

With warmest wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:34 pm

Taking the labels off another "person", and seeing them in a kind of majesty of the unknown.
Yes, I know what you're talking about. I've seen it. It's one of the scariest and most fascinatingly beautiful things I can remember.

I will be in the family home for a few days, with my parents and my oldest brother. I could feel the past already welcoming me as I approached the house. Joseph was forged here many years ago. It occurs to me that if Joseph were the One Ring... this place would be the Mount Doom. Sounds pretty accurate :D Time to be in the middle of the flames. Yay!

I'll sit sometimes and do nothing, feel what arises, and I'll tell you how it's going. :) Thanks for being here as a breeze on the embers, so the fire don't get shy.

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:51 pm

Hey Joseph,
Taking the labels off another "person", and seeing them in a kind of majesty of the unknown.
Yes, I know what you're talking about. I've seen it. It's one of the scariest and most fascinatingly beautiful things I can remember.

I will be in the family home for a few days, with my parents and my oldest brother. I could feel the past already welcoming me as I approached the house. Joseph was forged here many years ago. It occurs to me that if Joseph were the One Ring... this place would be the Mount Doom. Sounds pretty accurate :D Time to be in the middle of the flames. Yay!

I'll sit sometimes and do nothing, feel what arises, and I'll tell you how it's going. :) Thanks for being here as a breeze on the embers, so the fire don't get shy.
LOL :) Just watch out for hobbits.

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:22 pm

Yesterday I had a vision. If I don't exist, and you don't exist, what the hell are you and me doing here talking about these things? :D What are you? What the hell I'm doing here talking to another being through a screen, and more beings watching it?, and why are you doing this? You are exactly the same source as me, doing its thing, in the contexts that arises, with the tools that are available, in order to fulfill its own internal sense of goodness! The same everywhere! We are playing hide and seek together and realizing we don't exist so we can keep doing the things that we are already doing! But we are not doing anything, it's all by itself, so its not personal, and we are realizing that! And it doesn't make sense to think about it, just being it! You are really enjoying this don't you :D

Yesterday I saw that memory its not as important as it seemed before. The split second that I go to judgment in order to know how to react then I'm no longer present... and being present is the best kind of information there could be anytime about anything, because if not I'm missing reality for a projection. Aaaand there seems to be A LOT of personality oxide around here, this is fun :D

well well well

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:06 pm

Hi Joseph,
Yesterday I had a vision. If I don't exist, and you don't exist, what the hell are you and me doing here talking about these things? :D What are you? What the hell I'm doing here talking to another being through a screen, and more beings watching it?, and why are you doing this? You are exactly the same source as me, doing its thing, in the contexts that arises, with the tools that are available, in order to fulfill its own internal sense of goodness! The same everywhere! We are playing hide and seek together and realizing we don't exist so we can keep doing the things that we are already doing! But we are not doing anything, it's all by itself, so its not personal, and we are realizing that! And it doesn't make sense to think about it, just being it! You are really enjoying this don't you :D
LOL :) Yep, lots of stories as to what's happening here. Life expressing. The tree swaying this way, that way.
Yesterday I saw that memory its not as important as it seemed before. The split second that I go to judgment in order to know how to react then I'm no longer present... and being present is the best kind of information there could be anytime about anything, because if not I'm missing reality for a projection. Aaaand there seems to be A LOT of personality oxide around here, this is fun :D

well well well
Yes, the eternal now - very obvious really isn't it.

Ok Joseph, as I'm you, you have some questions for you :D

They will likely support and clarify what is been seen. Whatever responses come up would be wonderful to read. Thank you.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.


3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.


4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.


5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

With warm wishes,
Joseph ;)
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:22 am

Hi John,

At first I felt it was too soon to speak with the clarity that such questions demanded. But nevertheless I've sit and written some answers, and very much enjoyed it. Still there's a mixture of clarity and confusion that is being digested. And I don't want to force the process, but here is what I've written. It's the furthest I can see and express right now.
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
There is not a me but from the point of view of the illusion, which is no more than resistance to look to the roots that sustain the illusion.

There is not a me, just as there are no separate things, and no names. Because when one searches, fundamentally nothing is there. Just the mind, which needs to imagine objects and abstractions to play with in order to think, can create a me into existance. There seems to be a me only from the point of view of the persona, which is a thought construct, and the me looks totally real as long as the structure remains unquestioned. The more solid and real the me believes itself to be, more finds itself to be in dissonance with whatever surrounds him, which fundamentally is him. Fascinating.

Everything that exist is the same no-thing, that comes from the same no-place, and does what it does, as a whole, spontaneusly. Fundamentally there are no opposites or contrasts, just layers of complexity -from the point of view of the mind-, that are the ground for the arisal of apparent contrasts and new phenomena specific to that context layer, that the mind can try to make sense of, in order to construct its models of understanding. The functioning of the mind doesn’t require a me. It works by itself, and better without the me burden.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of separate self is an unquestioned believe in the existance of the person, as a doer of actions, and thinker of thoughts. In other words, something separate from the world.

There seems to be a “me” made of imagination, a thought entity that sustents itself by systematically avoiding any inquiry on its origin. It filters the perceptions so that only the ones that support its current belives are recognized as relevant. As the me is part of the mind, and the mind can influence the body, the thought entity uses resistance as a mean to control the energy flows of the body to perpetuate itself, by creating resistances and limits to perception, avoids being exposed for what it is. Just an invention.

In order to be “me” there needs to be an identification of some form. With the body, with a way of thinking, reacting and understanding... as the one that IS me. And a lot of energy is invested in defending the construct.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
When I look into the mirror, when I look into the eyes that looks into the mirror, I see a being that its not me. There’s a fullness of silence in the experience. There’s a recognition that doesn’t depend on thoughts or memory, but it can make use of those, and always point beyond them. I'm not moving those muscles, I'm not drawing those forms. There’s a playfulness, an aliveness that is just natural and fascinating, and complete mistery to itself.

Physically there’s a pulsation inside of the head. It changes its place depending on the emotion that is being experienced. I don’t know if it’s temporary. It is funny. Before, it triggered some fears and resistance, but now I find it easier just to watch the energy go wherever it wants to go. Years before, those kind of feelings were experienced as a loud alarm that paralyzed the me and made the me very scared, sometimes to the verge of autism, or PTSD. Now I can see it’s worth not resisting to the feelings in the body.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
I have no idea... I think it’s better not to push the door. But anyway

Have you ever looked into your non existance? Did you ever look to anything personal and checked if there was a person, and not just an empty reaction without somebody reacting? Because if you do check you’ll know what is laughing. Yeah, I wish somebody had told me this before. But probably I wouldn’t have listened anyway. How funny is that?
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
It’s still very gradual, with some sporadic breakthroughs. There is also prudence. Something is digesting the news, and slowly getting used to feeling and reacting to the energies in a different way, without altering the waters. The biggest resistance I found was to the surrendering to the feelings inside of the head and the body. Those triggered a lot of alarms for my persona. Specially when surrendered by people.

There have been always a love for truth. A recognition of the smell of what is false. And a lack of energy to spend in things that smelled that way. So I see the story of what happened like a slippery slope that leads to the truth sooner or later.

Oh, one thing that helped and still helps, was when I felt I could play with the emotions and experience the various opposites, so that it could reveal what was beyond them. There were many emotions that I prohibited myself from feeling since childhood, because of a fear of not being appropriate, or being dangerous, or not worthy, whatever. So there was a lack of emotional connection and an excess of thinking. There was a strong identification with that landscape. And now there’s an arising playfulness that dares with the emotions, with not worrying, with letting the inner phone ring without running to pick it, and with watching the heart find its rhythm. :)

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:44 am

Hi Joseph,

Thank you for the response - enjoyed reading them; can also feel the enjoyment you had in writing them. :)
Hi John,

At first I felt it was too soon to speak with the clarity that such questions demanded. But nevertheless I've sit and written some answers, and very much enjoyed it. Still there's a mixture of clarity and confusion that is being digested. And I don't want to force the process, but here is what I've written. It's the furthest I can see and express right now.
Let's continue to explore the experiences, the seeing, and it's effects as it settles.

Now "Joseph" is gone, what is left?

With warmest wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: I is burning

Postby Noreferencesanymore » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:46 am

Now "Joseph" is gone, what is left?
The unknown.

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Re: I is burning

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:11 am

Hi Joseph,
Now "Joseph" is gone, what is left?
The unknown.
Cool. :)

So, what's next? You mentioned "clarity and confusions". We can explore those or let them come out in the wash.

Share what the heart is saying Joseph...and we'll go from there.

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U


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