Help needed

[annarodriguez]

I have to experience the excitement (and other feelings) some more to give u a convinced answer, so I''ll get back to you on that.
And I'm still working on who is doing the looking, so I'm busy but don't have anything to report back yet :)
What i did realize was that I'm thinking about the subject a lot and I guess thinking doesn't do 'me' much good, although i understand it's not doing 'me' bad either.
In the sense that whatever result comes from thinking is just another thought and what eventually is realized is always in the here/now and can't be taken as a memory.
In that short moment a few days ago, it was seen that whatever I was is always present, but never outside here/now, of course including thoughts but is not just thought.
So I guess I can think about it all I want, but it's not a: one plus one equals two kinda thing.
That doesn't mean that I can stop thinking about it of course and I will, but I used to hang on to every thought, when now it's seen that it's not the content of the thought that is most important, but the here/now in which it arises, and what I probably am, but what I didn't realize yet.

I got the explanation concerning the Anna-character.

So one is born with certain traits and preferences, partly due to conditioning, but there is not an I to claim those.
And what I really am was never born and will never die, at least that's what I read. Correct?

[annarodriguez]

And I just realized how silly my expectations were, which I wrote down in the beginning.
Innocent of course, but whatever ones expectation is, it's not what's true. It is always what happens here/now, what could be anything.

[annarodriguez]

But to be totally clear,

I feel seperated, still. And those type of insights don't seem to be living realizations. Because even though at that moment they're very clear. After a while they get veiled by the strong I-sense again.

[Nick]

There's a feeling of separation. Ok. So? Is it real? Does the feeling and thought determine what's happening?

You don't have to go and think and find what's doing the looking... That's just a little question I used to poke you in the right direction. There's no special answer that you can find. :)

So dont search for answer. this is not a thinking process. Just answer honestly, it takes five minutes. I will keep poking you based on your answers until we see it!

FYI I am moving so I may be without Internet for a few days. I will try to respond daily if I can but I may be delayed, sorry!

Nick

[annarodriguez]

There's a feeling of separation. Ok. So? Is it real? Does the feeling and thought determine what's happening?

They determine what this body is feeling and that's happening. And I guess that is real. That is the reality at that moment. Feeling seperate.

Please keep on poking, I know that that's what you are doing. Those answers I wrote last time were what was coming up for me. So that's what I wrote down. Always in honesty because I know that is the only way.

Thanks for letting me now about the moving. I wish you an easy transfer. And I'll keep checkin in daily and will only be a little disappointed if you didn't reply :)

[Nick]

There's a feeling of separation. Ok. So? Is it real? Does the feeling and thought determine what's happening?

They determine what this body is feeling and that's happening. And I guess that is real. That is the reality at that moment. Feeling seperate.

Close your eyes and imagine a watermelon. Really see it, feel it and smell it in your mind. Then open your eyes. Where is the melon?

Even if you really believed and xperienced the melon in imagination, does that somehow make it reality? Theres absolutely nothing wrong with imagining the watermelon. it can be fun. but dont believe that its REAL! If you walked around behaving as if the melon were real, that would be insane and lead to all kinds of problems :)

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Nick

[annarodriguez]

I certainly see what you're pointing out here.
Only it is easy to see and experience that the melon is not real as soon as I open my eyes.
That's not the same with feeling seperate. When I open my eyes it looks and feels as if I'm seperate.
And that's strange, because eventhough I still haven't found a thinker or a doer, I still live life as if there was.

[Nick]

I certainly see what you're pointing out here.
Only it is easy to see and experience that the melon is not real as soon as I open my eyes.
That's not the same with feeling seperate. When I open my eyes it looks and feels as if I'm seperate.
And that's strange, because eventhough I still haven't found a thinker or a doer, I still live life as if there was.

Pretending as if there is a separate person is no problem. In fact it's necessary unless you plan on becoming a hermit in a cave :)

Just let the BELIEF that the separate person is real fall away. See that it's not really "you" living life. It's just life living and inside all that there is nice story about this person called Anna.

So you say youre looking and finding no doer or thinker. Well, what is it that's looking, isnt looking a type of doing, so is there a doer doing the looking? what is it thats not finding? Is it an experiencer?

Nick

[annarodriguez]

So you say youre looking and finding no doer or thinker. Well, what is it that's looking, isnt looking a type of doing, so is there a doer doing the looking? what is it thats not finding? Is it an experiencer?

Yeah, it feels like an experiencer but when looked for one, nothing is found. It's just experiencing.
What came up again today, was that whatever it is I'm looking for must be here now. It is always now. If not then it's just another thought, projecting something in the -sometimes very near- future. Like, it takes time to make up an experiencer or a doer right? I have to construct one, I guess thought is doing that.
So my thought gives me the feeling that there is a doer.

Just let the BELIEF that the separate person is real fall away.

Who would let the belief fall away? I couldn't do that, I would really want to and i've tried but it doesn't work. Because the one trying would be thought right, which is creating the feeling of a seperate person.

[Nick]

Yes Anna your first paragraph is right on.

In answer to the second paragraph, yes you're right there's no you that can do something to "let go"... But it's helpful to relax and "letting go" is a useful way to express this. Stop trying to do anything. It's happening all on its own already. But the thoughts keep happening. It's easier if the thoughts are saying "I give my permission to let go" as opposed to the thoughts saying "I'VE GOT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN DAMMIT!!!". Either way is an illusion, lol.

You said that when you look there's no experiencer, just experiences happening. Keep focused on that. What about when you're not trying or not looking? Anything different then or does it just SEEM different?

:)

[annarodriguez]

You said that when you look there's no experiencer, just experiences happening. Keep focused on that. What about when you're not trying or not looking? Anything different then or does it just SEEM different?

I guess nothing is different and that is just seems different, but it feels so convincing.
Things that happen couldn't be any other way right, how could they be. So it's all in me, the way I perceive.
And for now, most of the time I'm perceiving through thoughts and feelings.
Although I seem to buy into my story less and less, because I see so many stories around me.
It's always harder to see yourself and the way you operate, but I can always see clearly when other people are convinced of stories and thoughts which do not match reality.

Stop trying to do anything. It's happening all on its own already. But the thoughts keep happening. It's easier if the thoughts are saying "I give my permission to let go" as opposed to the thoughts saying "I'VE GOT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN DAMMIT!!!".

This helps and has been helping anyway for the last two weeks.
It is good that u ask to stop reading and viewing spiritual teachers.
Like I said before I realise that everything is in here already, it could not be any other way.
So otherones practises or stories on how they awakened are entertaining (I was kinda addicted) but in the end it has to be realised in here....
But now I'm doubting, where is this in here actually, because it's clear that this body-mind walks around a little confused and you seem to be alright :) so is it this body-mind that has to realize this or am I now on the wrong track again?

Anyway I have faith and trust and I'm taking it easy (for now.)
I'm trying less and less and that feels good.

Anna

[Nick]

All body/minds are walking around automatically, sometimes appearing confused, sometimes not. You can say "this" or "that" body/mind instead of "mine" and "yours", but those are just different words for the same idea. Any separation is conceptual only, not real.

You are looking right at it. You've said there were moments of just experiencing. Then later self is there and so convincing? Well, what is it that's being convinced? Can you notice what's different between these two times? Experiences are different, or just thoughts and feelings? Are these thoughts true? Do they matter? Do the thoughts belong to anyone or anything?

Nick

[annarodriguez]

You are looking right at it.

I can feel that I'm looking right at it. If that's even possible.
When I'm asking myself the question who's experiencing or the one being convinced, I can feel the turbulence in my stomach, because no-one is found, but it's like I'm too scared or that I don't really want this, I don't know.
Sometimes seeing through it seems just around the corner, but that could be imagination.

I'll keep looking into who the one is that is experiencing, looking, feeling, if there even is a one or that it's just one.

I can see though that thoughts or feelings don't matter. It doesn't matter, like u said before, if I'm feeling happy or sad. So I won't cling onto those. I'll keep looking for what's looking.

Hope you're settled in? :)

Anna

[Nick]

GOOD.

Don't look away... its all happening on its own. Don't allow ANY expectations to get in the way.

Look at that fear. What is it saying to you? What bad things does it say will happen if the beliefs in self is dropped?

Nick

[annarodriguez]

Hello,

Nothing much to report today. It was a very hectic day, with little room for introspection.
Of course I tried to look while being busy and see who it was thoughts and feelings were happening to. If there even was a who.
What I do notice is that I can recognize the fact that there is no center faster then before, but it's just a vague feeling. A vague spatial feeling.

When I did have the time to sit down for a little while I wanted to concentrate on fear. But of course it didn't show up. A little tingling, which didn't say much to me. It was just arising and going.

But I'll keep on looking with as little emphasis on the content of the thoughts and feelings as possible and be more attentive to whom or what they appear if they appear TO something at all. (probably not :))

And if fear did arise, I'll try to look into it.

Anna