Thread for Matias

[Matias]

What are you looking at?

I am looking if there is some hearer, looking if i exist.

What is that is looking?

I dont see nothing, but i feel like i am here looking.

[Ilona]

What is the i that is feeling?
Feel sensations that are happening now. Is there a feeler and sensation or sensation happening? Where is the gap between the feeler and the felt?

Is there i that feels?
What happens when you ask this question?

Sending love

[Matias]

Maybe there are some glimpses, but i will keep looking where you are pointing, and will write with more precision.


Thanks!

[Matias]

I was observing that thing that we talk some days before. I was observing if humans do breath(breathing), and is more accurate to say that they dont breath, they are breathed, or life breath as they... Life think, life do, life act... There is no breather, all is life doing that things...

This has sense now...

This has sense?

[Matias]

Ilona, a question. The "I" do not point to life? To vitality?

[Matias]

(Aliveness)

[Matias]

Maybe will be best if we keep focusing on the experiencer pointers... I think that that are the most clear pointers for me... And maybe it is more clear that there is nobody thinking, hearing, feeling, but just hearing, thinking, feeling. But i will keep looking.


Thanks!

[Matias]

What is the i that is feeling?

I dont know what is the i that feel, it is not some thing, is more like an intrinsic knowledge that i am here feeling.

Feel sensations that are happening now. Is there a feeler and sensation or sensation happening?

My mind is very unquiet and it is always almost impossible for me to focus on something without thoughts.
But when i focus on some sound it seems that there is only sound without hearer.

Where is the gap between the feeler and the felt?

I dont find a gap, but it is like there is some distinction.

Is there i that feels?
What happens when you ask this question?

What happen is confusion, because it is like searching for myself as an object outside of me.


I will keep looking. Sometimes there are some glimpses. Will keep focusing on this questions.


Thans.

[Ilona]

I dont find a gap, but it is like there is some distinction.

Distinction of what? Have. A closer look here, is there a line that separates the perceived from a perceiver?

The question here is this- is i a real entity with free will and choice, independent from everything's that is happening or is it fiction?
When Santa is realised to be imagined creature, it's not a matter of finding or not finding Santa. It's a matter of seeing through the lie, that there is this being called Santa, that brings gifts to good kids. When a kid sees that Santa is not real, he does not need to go looking for him, it's obvious that it was an illusion. Same is with this i thing. It's fiction. You don't need to try to find it. It does not exist.. so finding and not finding is not really the issue here. The question is - do you believe that you are someone with free will that moves independently from the whole, that makes things happen, that manages what will happen, that is in control of being alive.
If you believe this, prove it.

Sending love

[Matias]

i was this days with your last questions... I will write again with this... But i want to say that recentry, i see the question: "What is cooking?"... and was like "Oh.. nothing is cooking, just cooking..., nobody doing that...". A big aha there.
I will see what happen. Will write againg.


Thanks!

[Matias]

Distinction of what? Have. A closer look here, is there a line that separates the perceived from a perceiver?

The distiction is because i interpret that i am not the feeling that i am looking, or that i am hearing a sound but i am not that sound, that is the division that i find, but when i look if there is some clear line between sound and me, i dont find one.

When Santa is realised to be imagined creature, it's not a matter of finding or not finding Santa. It's a matter of seeing through the lie, that there is this being called Santa, that brings gifts to good kids. When a kid sees that Santa is not real, he does not need to go looking for him, it's obvious that it was an illusion. Same is with this i thing. It's fiction. You don't need to try to find it. It does not exist.. so finding and not finding is not really the issue here.

I feel that if I had never existed there would never have been experience.

The question is - do you believe that you are someone with free will that moves independently from the whole, that makes things happen, that manages what will happen, that is in control of being alive.

I feel like i move my body, and that i react, and that i think and i understand, and i decide and i move the arm, etc etc. But i know that this can be ilusion.
When you say "independently to the whole", i dont know what you mind with the word whole, because i dont see a "whole", i can imagine that exist an objective world, and galaxies, and that all that is one unified thing, and that humans and animals, and plants live inside of that "Whole". But i dont know if things are in that way. I just see one to one perception, i see a satelital picture of the world and i say "oh.. i am there, i am inside of that thing" but i dont know if i am inside of some "universe", because in first person the experience it is like an screen, the screen it is not inside the world of the film, it is one to one. I dont know if i explain well what i want to say. The point is that i do not find a "whole" of which i can be separated or not.



Thanks

[Matias]

I was remembering something that read in Liberation Unleashed that talk about that we say "I'm lying in bed" but then we look and there are some sensations like body and the bed but there is no someone lying in the bed...

is for there?
"

[Ilona]

Distinction of what? Have. A closer look here, is there a line that separates the perceived from a perceiver?
The distiction is because i interpret that i am not the feeling that i am looking, or that i am hearing a sound but i am not that sound, that is the division that i find, but when i look if there is some clear line between sound and me, i dont find one.

There is still a belief, that there must be a perceiver. But your experience shows, that there is nothing there, just the sound, just the feeling. The me that feels and hears is mind added image, no more than that. No wonder you can't find that line, there is no line. And yet, you still think that there must be i that feels and hears, and sees...

By the whole I mean al that is happening. Including thoughts, feelings, sensations, colours, sounds, smells taste... you don't need to imagine what is, it already IS. Here now. All this 'the whole' is here, right? And where is the i in there? Is there i? Is there a separate entity to which life is happening?

What happens when you ask this question? What is the answer?

Sending love.

[Matias]

Yes, i dont understand how can be seeing without seer or hearing without something that hear...

All this 'the whole' is here, right?

Yes, there are sounds, colors, sensations.

And where is the i in there? Is there i? Is there a separate entity to which life is happening?
I dont find someone, but the sense that i am here it is still here.


The other day you point to the thing that there are sensations but no feeler, sounds but no hearer, colours but no seer. This has sense to me, but how can be sounds, colours, sensations without some perception of them(i want to say, how can be sound without hearing, colours without seeing, etc...?

This has sense?



Thanks.

[Matias]

I try to do not put all the "aha´s" that appear because they pass away and let only confusion, and i feel that that complicate the conversation. But i was saying "I am angry, i am sad", and remember the question that you say "there is something that is angry"?
And no... there is angry, but no someone or something angry...

Will keep looking


Thanks