Thread for Monja Gitana

[Monja gitana]

Hi MB, damn just sent a reply and it got lost. Bit hard doing this on my phone. I will be off line from tomorrow for 2 weeks.

It was last Saturday the 24th August. She asked me where I thought the self was in my body. I said my head. Then she asked me to really look for the self there and could I find it. I couldnt. Then she asked to look for a self anywhere in the body. I couldnt find one.

The illusion of self happens when I realise I am caught up in stories of feeling hurt, not seen, hard done by,praised,etc. The feelings continue to arise, upset, happy etc but since last week ive been quicker at catching the stories before they expand and take over for hours, replay after replay. I ask myself who am I protecting and the answer is no one. I feel more in the flow of life. Also ive been more direct and straight forward with people. MG

[Mad biker]

Saturday Gawd I was THERE! yooz shoulda pulled me in!
OK, see you back here in two weeks. I will have a fuller reply here by then but right now I am on the train doing stab and feck on an ipad in the middle of a champagne Hen Party so it is not entirely keyboard safe but was silent till they came on two minutes ago!
Mb

[Mad biker]

Getting my twos mixed up and finding it hard to find previous posts in Gmail!

So let me try here:
Is it the case that you are away for two months but that you are only incommunicado for two weeks of that two month period?
Mb x

[Mad biker]

Hey great to have you back Gitana!
I do hope that was a good retreat up in the mountains.

Please re read the last two pages of our thread ie 13 and 14 as there are only a few lines on page 15. This will help to re orientate yourself back in to the mode.

Then please address yourself to my final post on page 14 which reads:

Hi Gitana,

OK what I've got is this:

There is dialogue missing which is all perfectly understandable and fine of course. However you were a little too brief to cover the circumstances (ie the missing dialogue) eg one guide said:

[[[ "We recon I got it" does not sound to me like a sure YES. It may be yes, it may be a glimpse, I don't know..]]]

So just fill that out a bit more for all parties. Just open up and cut loose. You have nothing to lose at this stage in the proceedings we have never yet 'lost' one at this stage of the procedure!

Address yourself to question 2 again just say more.

Generally; what changed? What stayed the same?

Is there any 'seeking' going on? As in neurotic needy stuff, as though 'the answer' lies somehow 'over there'?

Also give us the actual date that the seeing through arose. This give us more of a sense of how much bedding-in has happened, or has not happened at this stage ie is it one day or seven days? etc.
Mb x

[Monja gitana]

Hi MB could you word question 2 differently for me please? Ta MG

[Mad biker]

I hope that break was good and you are nicely settled back down again.

Don't forget to give yourself half a dozen or so nice caring breaths before continuing.

Below is my re-write of question two


"Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see
it now."

Describe and give reasons for the arising of the illusion of a separate self, when does this arising happen and how does it happen in your day to day experience.(By all means feel free to speculate about child hood and 20th century textbook psychology as most people do in response to this question, but your day to day experience is the main thing here!) Give your version of an explanation of it as you see it now.

[Monja gitana]

Last week my partner criticised me about something and immediately I felt wounded and hurt. I tried to stay with the experience, churning in the belly, wanting to cry, tight throat but I could only manage about 20 seconds. Then stuff blurted out of my mouth causing a big mess. After about 10 minutes it was like a light went on illuminating what was going on. I was protecting my sense of self and felt completely separate. I was disappointed I didn't catch it earlier but also didn't give myself a hard time.

I have to say that most of the time I go about my life feeling this separate sense of self. In the mountains last weekend I was looking out over this amazing landscape of snow capped mountains and alpine meadows. I watched a bird flying off into the distance along the gorge until it was out of view. I was completley absorbed in the moment, what I was seeing, hearing, feeling. I can only describe it as a deep sense of love and peace. MG

[Mad biker]

OK, I just got this now (as I don't get notifications of your postings) and it has been a big Web day.
I will be back to you tomorrow.
Mb

[Mad biker]

There seem to be two very different sections in your paragraph, two very different moods or even vignettes which have been run into each other and lumped together. So I would like to separate them:

Last week my partner criticised me about something and immediately I felt wounded and hurt. I tried to stay with the experience, churning in the belly, wanting to cry, tight throat but I could only manage about 20 seconds.

Was there really anything happening here other than 'thought' and 'sensation'?

More in the Morning!
Mb

[Mad biker]

I tried to stay with the experience

"tried"?

Remember our fridge door thing?:
Somehow in our neurology, the word 'try' has a vestige of 'failure' floating around it
You don't "try" to open a fridge door, you just effing open it!

I want to ask you to continue to turn towards and open up to these arisings (the above incident with your partner)

There is a relatively specific way that this turning 'towards and opening up' is done:

Leave aside any notion that goes along the lines of: 'Right I will just turn towards this now, so that it will shortly abate and "I" will feel better because I am an adult, and besides, it can't be that bad anyway!'

No! Instead turn towards the Dukkha as though it was really going to be utterly unmitigated shite!

Open up to it in complete surrender in a spirit of curiosity, exploration, learning and keeping it tangible. Tangible in the sense of noticing your responses (especially bodily responses) and noticing your responses TO those very responses.

Notice what happens.

[Monja gitana]

Gee this feels like torture!! Okay re visited a dukkha experience from a few days ago of jealousy and insecurity. Almost immediately I started crying, tightness and pounding in the chest, churning in the stomach, pain in my forehead ?Noticed I didn't want to be feeling the tensions in my body but the tears felt like a relief. After a few minutes I felt a sense of calmness and my body relaxed and I realised something had changed and it felt like the drama had passed, like a cloud moving across the sky. MG

[Mad biker]

OK, let's mosey along step by step. I now want to revisit the second part of your paragraph from yesterday:

After about 10 minutes it was like a light went on illuminating what was going on. I was protecting my sense of self and felt completely separate. I was disappointed I didn't catch it earlier but also didn't give myself a hard time.

In the above, are you telling me that there was a big changeover from the previous negative contracted state?

Did you mean to write; 'I WAS protecting myself...'?

Or did you instead mean to write; 'I HAD BEEN protecting myself...'?

It just was not clear to me that was all.

Did the negativity all evaporate after ten minutes?

Did it really take ten minutes before this change arose? Answer as accurately as possible.

In the past, before you began this process on LU, did this sort of thing usually take longer to disappear?

Answer each question accurately so that I can get a fuller sense of what was intended by your writing.

[Mad biker]

After a few minutes I felt a sense of calmness and my body relaxed and I realised something had changed and it felt like the drama had passed, like a cloud moving across the sky. MG

I am wondering if the above is the same thing again?

A massive paradigm shift?

ie, things were bad then suddenly got good again? That both in yesterdays quote and in today's quote what you are saying is that in a matter of minutes all was well again after being pretty crap?

All this detail matters so answer every bit of it. I think I have got your meaning but I have to know that I have got it!

[Mad biker]

Still looking good by the way!

[Monja gitana]

Ok answering your first thread. I did mean to write I was protecting myself. I closed down. No all the negativity didn't vanish in 10 minutes, I could just see more clearly what was going on, I could see the conditions that led to what happened. I could see my part in it more clearly and so didn't then feel the need to fight my way out of it or justify myself. In the past usually I've been able to move things on quite quickly because I soon realise the suffering I'm causing to myself and others. I've had the experience of one minute being completely absorbed in the drama and then the next minute ( or 10) looking on like its a play or movie and then it all feels ridiculous and I can see how funny it is. I can get off the stage.

Second thread. I was revisiting feeling jealous and insecure. But when it was actually going on the crap feeling lasted maybe for an hour and a half. I tried " jealousy and insecurity is known" but that didn't help. I so didn't want to to be feeling what I was feeling and just wanted to get the hell out. I hate how I feel when I'm feeling those emotions. I just feel lost in it all. Of course it eventually shifts.........until the next time. MG