Take 2 new guide needed please

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

I is both experience and experiencer. Everything that can be seen, heard and so on is all the experience experiencing.

We have to be careful not to fall into the trap of thought, creating the belief that it is the experience and the experiencer as one, this becomes another identity.
Drop the words/labels of both and just sit with the sensations and look for the experience through the sensations, as thoughts arise is there a connection between the thoughts and the experiencing?

Well, I still feel like I am the feeler but more and more it is becoming obvious that it is all just happening.

No, there is no feeler. please repeat the experiment and find out what it is you call ‘feeler'?
How do you know that the sensations you call ‘feeler’ are you, the entity that feels something?

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

Drop the words/labels of both and just sit with the sensations and look for the experience through the sensations, as thoughts arise is there a connection between the thoughts and the experiencing?

Sometimes the thoughts are labelling or describing the sensation, or questioning them. Other times the thoughts are completely unrelated to the experience.

No, there is no feeler. please repeat the experiment and find out what it is you call ‘feeler'? How do you know that the sensations you call ‘feeler’ are you, the entity that feels something?

That knowing is just a thought "I" have been conditioned to believe.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy

Sometimes the thoughts are labelling or describing the sensation, or questioning them. Other times the thoughts are completely unrelated to the experience.

I will rephrase the question, is there a hard connection between the sensations and thought, is there a cable or a hard wire connection, somethings that has a direct connection between thought and the sensation. Other than another thought.

[Stacyg888]

No connection between sensation and thought.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy

No connection between sensation and thought

Is this answered a thought or is it experiential?

[Stacyg888]

It is based on experience - sensations are experienced, random thoughts arise but not necessarily about the sensation.

Unless you mean are they connected literally - all arising out of the same space/consciousness.

I meant not connected as in not linked, no cause and effect there.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

It is based on experience - sensations are experienced, random thoughts arise but not necessarily about the sensation.

Unless you mean are they connected literally - all arising out of the same space/consciousness.

I meant not connected as in not linked, no cause and effect there.

OK yes there is no connection, what is happening here is that your answer is very thought based. If you can go back into the inquiry, sit quitely and relax into the feeling, in the body. Find a strong sensation, let go of any thoughts and allow the attention to go to the sensation. Stay here and look for the thought to arise and notice if there is a physical connection between the sensations and thought.

Do this on as many occasions as you can.
what do you notice?

What Hears the Sound?
Sit quietly, close your eyes, and listen to the sounds that can be heard without actively reaching out for them. Labels will be added, for example, “a child calling”, “a truck passing”. Allow this to happen and focus on the sound that can be heard.
1. Where is the sound, is it inside or outside?
2. Inside or outside of what?
3. Is there a hearer and the heard, or simply hearing, or simply the heard?
4. If you find a hearer and the heard, where is the border between them? Where does the heard end and the hearer of the heard start?
Try this experiment with different sounds. The core question is: “Is there a hearer?”

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

Find a strong sensation, let go of any thoughts and allow the attention to go to the sensation. Stay here and look for the thought to arise and notice if there is a physical connection between the sensations and thought.

What I notice is that the strong sensation weakens when awareness moves to the thought. Same as when I listen without thinking - the sound is purer, clearer, louder, then fades when awareness goes to thinking. So in that way, the connection is where awareness starts and where it moves to.

What Hears the Sound?

1. Where is the sound, is it inside or outside?

Sounds appear to be coming from outside.

2. Inside or outside of what?

I am inside my house - most of the noises are outside in the garden.

3. Is there a hearer and the heard, or simply hearing, or simply the heard?

I'm not "awake" yet so still living in a world of separation so there appears to be me the hearer, but I can also experience just hearing when I allow awareness to just listen without the thinking mind.

4. If you find a hearer and the heard, where is the border between them? Where does the heard end and the hearer of the heard start?

Impossible to say where hearing, the heard or the hearer start or finish.

Try this experiment with different sounds. The core question is: “Is there a hearer?” Again, as a person living in a world of separateness, it feels like I, Stacy, am the hearer.

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

How are you?

I am wondering if you still want to guide me.

Thanks.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

I am wondering if you still want to guide me.

Yes.
My apologies I had posted a reply Last week and was waiting for your answer.

As I see it now my post didn't post.
I'm not sure why.

Same as when I listen without thinking - the sound is purer, clearer, louder, then fades when awareness goes to thinking. So in that way, the connection is where awareness starts and where it moves to.

Are you Awareness or Consciousness?
Does it feel like “I am the awareness/consciousness in which everything arises” or “all experience arises in awareness/consciousness”?
You might have heard these statements as a way of describing spiritual experience. In this inquiry, we are looking for proof. Are you truly awareness? Do experiences truly arise in awareness in a literal sense? If what the word seems to refer to cannot be found in your actual experience, the word is only an idea, a theoretical mental concept.
Anything that cannot be seen, heard, touched, smelled or tasted is simply a thought, a mental concept.

Again, as a person living in a world of separateness, it feels like I, Stacy, am the hearer.

Stacy you raised this 2 times in your answers, it appears that you believe you are asleep "if you are not awake"?
Also in a world of separateness, Where is this world of separatness exactly?

If you say the sounds are outside then outside of what? If they are outside the house then the house is in the yard boundaries, so the sounds could be inside the yard and the yard could be inside the town and the town could be inside the state and inside the country and inside the planet and inside the solar system and inside the galaxy and so on. The pointing is that there is no inside or outside. there is no inside the body or outside the body. There are no boundaries other than thought created boundaries.

Close your eyes, place your hand on the table and look for the boundary between the table and the hand, not a thought imagined boundary, a real line of demarcation.
No put your attention on the sound in your ears and listen to the sounds in the ears. what do you notice?

but I can also experience just hearing when I allow awareness to just listen without the thinking mind.

What is the evidence that Stacy is the hearer, other than a thought?

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

Oh dear. That has happened to me a few times too. Thanks for responding today.

Are you Awareness or Consciousness? Does it feel like “I am the awareness/consciousness in which everything arises” or “all experience arises in awareness/consciousness”?

I don't feel like I am awareness or consciousness. All experiences arise in awareness. Awareness feels to encompass everything, Stacy/Paul/people included.

As far as proof goes, I have none that i am awareness - only sounds, smells, sensations. Those are real and reliable.

Do experiences truly arise in awareness in a literal sense?

Awareness is everything there is. Experiences arise through a body eg Stacy, through the senses in her "system".

Where is this world of separatness exactly?

It's not real, it's an illusion, an incorrect perception. Thought created boundaries are what is keeping me feeling like I live in an illusion, what I call asleep and would like to wake up out of the illusion.

put your attention on the sound in your ears and listen to the sounds in the ears. what do you notice?

There is no border between the hand and the table, and no border between the sound and my ear - the sound is in my ear, regardless of where it is coming from.

What is the evidence that Stacy is the hearer, other than a thought?

There isn't any. My understanding after working through all these questions tonight is that Stacy is the name given to the body/system that is experiencing DE.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

Where is this world of separatness exactly?

It's not real, it's an illusion, an incorrect perception. Thought created boundaries are what is keeping me feeling like I live in an illusion, what I call asleep and would like to wake up out of the illusion.

What are you seeing right now, describe?


Is what you are seeing separate from right now?

Is anything separate from right now, your thoughts, the sounds ,the sensations, the people, the trees, the animals, the computer screen?

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

What are you seeing right now, describe?

TV, couch, cushions, window, trees leg, picture and other things.

Is what you are seeing separate from right now?

Not necessarily separate, a different way to say it would be a part of, a part of the whole.

Is anything separate from right now, your thoughts, the sounds ,the sensations, the people, the trees, the animals, the computer screen?

I see it is all just happening here. Now that I get that sounds happen in my ear and not "out there" and what I see happens in my eyes rather than "out there", I feel like progress is being made but what now?

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Stacy,

Is what you are seeing separate from right now?

Not necessarily separate, a different way to say it would be a part of, a part of the whole.

Is this a thought response or is it a experiential response?

If you find that it is a thought response, see if you can come at the question again from your experience.

I feel like progress is being made but what now?

Is there anything other than now?(experientially)

Is there an ‘I’ that sees everything?
Pick an object that can be seen from where you are; a lamp, a tree, a plant, a table, or any other object.
Gently look at it without staring. Follow the lines of the object, notice the different colors and shapes. Explore the object as if you wanted to paint it, you can even paint it if you’d like to. You could also imagine that you come from a culture that isn’t familiar with these objects and you see the object for the first time.
Again, explore only your first-hand experience, disregarding the thoughts about the object.

1. What is called “a lamp” or “a tree”? What can be seen?
2. Where is the image of the object, is it inside or outside of you?
3. If it is seen inside or outside, where is the border where the image crosses over from being outside to being inside of you? What does the border consist of?
4. Is there a see-er and the seen, or simply seeing or the seen?

[Stacyg888]

Hi Paul,

Is this a thought response or is it a experiential response?

Oh, that was definitely a thought response. Oops - good catch.

Is there anything other than now?(experientially)

No, always just this, just what is happening.

Is there an ‘I’ that sees everything?

Not really, I is just a figure of speech.

1. What is called “a lamp” or “a tree”? What can be seen?

Lamp - long brown "stalk", cream coloured round shape on top. Question: I know the words/labels for lamps and everything else I see - am I supposed to try to drop these labels to just see shapes and colours?

2. Where is the image of the object, is it inside or outside of you?

This is still tricky - it feels outside of this body that is known as Stacy, but I see that everything in the visual field, if broken down into shapes and colours, is all a visual soup of sorts, all just there, all just happening. Then it seems to be an extension of me, rather than outside as such.

3. If it is seen inside or outside, where is the border where the image crosses over from being outside to being inside of you? What does the border consist of?

There is no border, no start or finish but, experientially, there is me and there are labelled things. Ultimately it is all atoms and energy dancing around, I know that scientifically but my experience is me, you, lamp, tree.

4. Is there a see-er and the seen, or simply seeing or the seen?

I have no idea. It feels like a see-er and the seen. I don't know how to change that. From what I have learned through our conversations, there is life just happening without a me, I just don't get it.

I feel like I am between worlds now. How do I live life like this? On the one hand I accept that life is all just happening and I don't get to say what happens, no decisions to deliberate so why bother communicating my opinions, but I feel like a doormat just going along with what others want. And I see things and separateness but deep down somewhere I know that's not accurate. So now I "know better" but actually I have no clue