My views don't feel reliable/believable

[Vasvi2004]

Okay, I will get back to you. Sitting now

[Vasvi2004]

Oh my God, no wonder I’ve been suffering. Identifying with this constant river of thought stream would drive anyone crazy. My God. I sat for a long time last night, I remember at some point I literally salivated at the thought of believing and engaging the thoughts lol. But then I woke up and even though still heavily bombarded by thoughts, I wanted to try again. And I was reading this book “simply always awake” and he has a great simple step by step approach of a few pages on observing thoughts. That helped me yesterday too. So I read more about that to follow it. And he said to do this from a calm place, and kinda let the calm space do the practice for you. That made sense to me a bit. I did it and oh, it’s always just been thoughts? Like all of it. Lol. I could even recognise the bringing forth the image of Vasvi’s face to a thought to make it seem more important than some other thought. It’s kinda still lingering, the effect. I did it for 30-40 mins. There is no one at the centre controlling this thing. I wouldn’t say I am 100% sure about that but it was intuitively obvious.

[graceabounds]

Yes. You saw it.

All of it has been thoughts. All of it.

This is the taste of the real shift—not some blissful high, but the unhooking from belief. You didn’t try to let go of thought, you saw through it, and it dissolved. You saw how thought props itself up, how it reaches for an image (like Vasvi’s face) to glue itself to, to regain gravity and lure you back into drama.

There is no one at the centre controlling this thing. I wouldn’t say I am 100% sure about that but it was intuitively obvious.

Exactly. AND notice what that space of intuitively obvious is like, it is outside of thoughts… it just is. Notice too that to be 100% sure would require thought. :) What is being sought here will be recognized as true but that recognition will come from direct experience, not thought.

Continue today to notice the thoughts. This may be similar to what Angelo wrote, or a progression from it:

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.
1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.
Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:
Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Once you are in the gap, stop. and inquire:
What is here right now without referring to any thought?

No interpretation. No description. Not even “I feel calm” or “I’m here.” Don’t report. Stay.

What is this?

Let me know how you go.

[Vasvi2004]

Hi, first of all I wanna say thank you. You’re genuinely being a guide. Like I know that sounds obvious, but like, you’re being nothing more nothing less and I really appreciate it. This is really real stuff. Words are almost useless.
A lot of raw emotions and fear, and the mind trying to protect “me” from pain. But I’ve gained a slight trust/confidence that it’ll settle as long as there is a kind of openness to truth and a willingness to explore the me. I’m not being as strict with the exactness of the practice today, being strict with it was feeling counterproductive, because I could feel the me wanting to come in and solve the fear of experiencing pain and discomfort. Life decided to be vulnerable today. So i’m letting life do it’s thing and practice is sorta happening on its own too. So the observing of thoughts and all (i had nothing to do today).
And yes even when i was writing the 100% sure thing I knew it was a thought analysis. It isn’t a 100% sure kinda thing. The gap thing might be happening on its own a bit but as a practice i think i have an image of how its suppose to look. I feel a bit doubtful about the gap thing because im worried ill get confused about the current practice of just noticing thoughts as thoughts as they arise in the present moment. It does lead to thoughtless spaces on its own but noticing the gap, i dont knowww. There’s a still a feeling of, oh thoughts have something important. I am not sure what it is thats stopping me from what you describe as the gap.

[Vasvi2004]

There’s definitely resistance, like my mind is trying to protect me from painful experience and thoughts and all. I feel dazed and confused a bit. Like stuff is bubbling underneath and I can’t reach it.

[graceabounds]

Hi Sukie,

Yes words are almost useless, but we press on…

I could feel the me wanting to come in and solve the fear of experiencing pain and discomfort

Excellent. What is the “me” trying to solve anything?

Can you find it? Not the feeling of tension, not the swirl of thoughts… the actual one who wants to fix, solve, protect.

Notice this:

So i’m letting life do it’s thing

That sentence contains a you again, still subtly managing, still choosing to “let.”

Look freshly. Is there someone letting? Or is life just unfolding??

This isn’t about being strict or relaxed. It’s about being ruthlessly honest about what’s actually here and what’s imagined. That said, if you answer some of these questions directly, one at a time, in words as best as possible, that can be helpful.

There’s a still a feeling of, oh thoughts have something important.

What comprises a ‘feeling’?
An emotion? A thought? A sensation in the body? Take a look.

There’s definitely resistance, like my mind is trying to protect me from painful experience and thoughts and all. I feel dazed and confused a bit. Like stuff is bubbling underneath and I can’t reach it.

Good. Don’t analyze it. Sit inside the daze. Inside the confusion. No fixing. No narrative.

Can you find what’s being protected?
Not the feeling itself, but what it’s trying to protect.
If you look with nothing held back, is anything actually there?

[graceabounds]

Haha Sorry for the typo.

Vasvi. ❤️

[Vasvi2004]

Okay. Sitting right now.

[Vasvi2004]

HI, sensations and emotions are freaking me out. Like, on the surface level identity kinda loosened i think. I don't know if identity has layers or not but my interpretations of my experience is that right now my attention went to a subtler sense of self. she's scared, she seems to be holding on for dear dear life. she's trying her best to make sense of stuff and she's kinda non verbal. like she's mostly hidden in fear. that may or may not be false, i want to see for myself so im not going to label it. but im not able to see. looking at arising thoughts is also a bit of a challenge because she gets scared of losing control.

[Vasvi2004]

i dont know its kind of a challenge to look further, dont know what to do

[Vasvi2004]

everything feels so directed towards a me its crazy. feels like helplessness and desperation. scared to say it out loud.

[graceabounds]

Good. You’re not hiding from this.

Now come out of the narrative. Don’t analyze the fear. Don’t try to soothe her. Don’t try to make sense of any of it.

Can you find anything anywhere that is being protected by this fear?
Search. Not in theory, not in concept. In experience. In the felt presence of this moment.

When it says “I’m scared,” who is it speaking for?
What exactly is under threat?

looking at arising thoughts is also a bit of a challenge because she gets scared of losing control.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Is anything, anywhere, actually in control of this moment?

[Vasvi2004]

I’m gonna answer some questions.
It is kinda clear that whatever is being “protected” by the content of a thought is another thought. It’s a thought protecting a thought. Again I don’t wanna be very sure of anything. But just my simple observation that’s what i see.
A feeling is a sensation, then saved memory of the interpretations of that sensation and then a final current thought about that sensation. And the thought acts like it knows the sensation. The memory thoughts around that sensation (could be called beliefs) have a narrative that’s even more sure that it knows what the sensation is.

[Vasvi2004]

A controller is a single thought that believes it is the one causing movement in the body, both of thoughts, emotions, sensations, and actual physical movement. It is literally just a thought that identifies itself as the controller.

[Vasvi2004]

When it says it is scared, it is speaking for no one. It is kind of an independent movement in itself. You can’t even say it is saying anything about the sensations felt alongside it. Scared is also a controller thought.