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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue May 13, 2025 10:16 pm

Thank you.

Yes, that's better. Decision is a thought.
he has a lot of talks about free will not being black and white, that he experiences there is both free will and not.
*sigh* I completely disagree. Sure, there is paradox, but that is not what we are looking at right now.

May I recommend Sam Harris's book, "Free Will," to your attention? He is a neuroscientist and also awake, which seems to impart the best of both worlds. Feel free to refer me to some reading by Adyashanti.

Now that you understand question # 4 above and we have discussed free will, choice, etc. do you feel ready to answer those questions again? If all is well, I will submit them for other guides to read and ask questions.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Love210
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Love210 » Tue May 13, 2025 11:21 pm

Yes thank you, I've listened to Sam Harris talk about free will a bunch. It's funny how many awakened teachers differ on this topic. Papaji and Gangaji teach that your only choice is where you put your attention and said that you must have vigilance until your last breath to catch when you give your attention to arising phenomena and leave your true Self. I always heard this message and was confused about who/what would need to have vigilance, what choice is there to do this, how is there still something to do and how can you ever leave your Self?

I wish i remembered the names of the youtube videos from Adyashanti but I remember a talk where he says he is not interested in answering questions about free will because he doesn't want to debate about it like people like to do. Then he mentions that for him he experiences there is both choice and not. Rupert Spira says there is technically no free will but you should live your life as if you have free will. And I've heard him instruct people to choose either to live a life in full surrender to the unknown making no personal choices or to live fully as the chooser.

I could answer the questions again, but initially when i answered them i already had seen there was no choice or intention as I've seen this many times before. We ended up talking about it more because I still experience the appearance and belief in doership until i remember to stop and look. Do you experience this as well sometimes and is that normal to continue? Or is there more seeing to do that leads to eventually not feeling doership at all? I've heard teachers say that there is always a sense of a doer/chooser associated with the body/mind, but it's not really believed anymore.

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed May 14, 2025 12:22 am

Hi again
there is always a sense of a doer/chooser associated with the body/mind, but it's not really believed anymore.
That's my experience, so far.

I just want a clear post of answered questions to present to other guides who may have further questions. If not. or once they're answered, we conclude this conversation, we turn your name blue & invite you to our Facebook groups. There are also teleconferences you can attend to have conversations to process whatever may remain.

I don't hold philosophical conversations here. I just point until you see, then we confirm as best we can.

Okay?

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed May 14, 2025 12:29 am

Here are links to Vince's meetings. There are many others with a group called POK for Perfectly Okay


Vince says:

i have put countdown timers until each meeting on the home page of the website. [https://1ness.info](https://1ness.info)

There is a meetup every Saturday at 9 pm (Sydney Australia time)

and one each Monday 7 am ( Sydney Australia time)

and each Wednesday at 4 pm (Sydney Australia time)

and every Friday 8 am (Sydney time) - never published.

You can check your local time

(https://www.worldtimebuddy.com)

Please note that it's always the same time on the same link

Arriving late and leaving early is fine.

Click here to Join Zoom Meeting

[https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09]

Maybe something in that will help.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Love210
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Love210 » Wed May 14, 2025 1:35 am

Hi,
Sure i understand. In case you're still interested I did find one of the Adya videos I was talking about and another where he talks about doing, choosing, attention and intention from the perspective of a person with personal responsibility who decides and chooses and definitely not sharing from a black/white nondual lens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6axv5Xz ... Adyashanti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tLhJYI ... Adyashanti

Thank you for those resources. I don't feel i particularly need to rewrite those question answers again but if you think there may be a benefit to having other guides chime in you can let me know. I'm not sure what more needs to be processed but I'm imagining the more frequently I continue to see through the moments of belief the less it will be believed.

Thank you!

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed May 14, 2025 8:14 am

It is our process to run the thread by other guides before calling it complete That's how it works. As a courtesy to them, I like to present one coherent post & not make them dig for your answers & subsequent clarifications.

I can try, but I hate to make their volunteer service difficult, you see.
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Love210
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Love210 » Fri May 16, 2025 8:18 pm

I understand. Feel free to just use the post with my answers from before as they have not changed and I still don't have an answer for question #4 as I'm not aware anything tipped me over or changed in my perception since writing those questions.
Thanks!

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue May 20, 2025 3:02 pm

Good morning,

I posted your thread. Two other guides have read it.

One thinks you are coming totally from thinking and things you have read. She does not believe you are seeing no self.

Another says:

"Think the doership choice/control may still need some work and looking. More importantly there seems to be a lot of attachment to other teachers and how it all works from a perspective that is not direct experience. Cannot fault her for this since she seems to have been seeking for understanding of the perspective she discovered on her own, but would love to have more clearly articulated what is actually seen here now and not philosophy if she wants to guide."

Could you please reply to the second one? That might also satisfy the first.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Love210
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Love210 » Tue May 20, 2025 4:48 pm

Good morning Stacy.

I laughed at the first comment from another guide. I was definitely always sharing about my direct experience in answering the questions but i can also understand why it might sound like philosophy from what I've learned. All of us are using language that is shaped by what we've learned. And as I mentioned before I agree there can be deeper seeing since I still experience belief in self/choice/control thought even if it's not believed after I catch it.

What I'm seeing right now is typing by hands and a screen with words and colors that seem to be in front of me the looker. There is a sense of a me behind my eyes looking out and then a sense that there is no me anywhere, and yet everywhere, when I relax the belief in a thought of a me looking.

Thank you!

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri May 23, 2025 12:50 am

The second guide responded with these 6 questions.

What, specifically, in direct experience, creates the illusion of the me behind the eyes? Where is its location? Is it a tension? A sensation of some kind?

Who is the one relaxing a belief? Is there control over this moment of shift? A one who relaxes?

Look directly and report back.

Loving
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Love210
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Love210 » Fri May 23, 2025 1:55 am

What, specifically, in direct experience, creates the illusion of the me behind the eyes? Where is its location? Is it a tension? A sensation of some kind?
When I close my eyes there is a sensation of tension in the head that feels like a me and when attention moves to this tension it relaxes and it’s clear there is no me location.

When my eyes are open there are some body parts like the edges of my eyelashes and narrowed vision and a thought that says looking is happening from behind my eyes and within my body, so it seems visuals are received to a central location in my head. And the visuals are limited to the field of sight from my eyes, for example I cannot see behind my head, so a thought says vision is limited to the eyes and perceived by me who cannot see more than what’s in front of my head. But I still can’t find a me location. When I don’t listen to/believe these thought assumptions and the mind is quiet there is no thought of a me anywhere.

Someone spoke to me just now and there is a tension and pressure in the head and body to respond and a thought there will be consequences if I don’t, even though I don’t want to. There is a sense of being located here in my body and the other person is over there in another body and I am responsible for this body and not theirs. Those are thoughts and beliefs and still I cannot find a me but there appears to be evidence that my thoughts are private to me and this body, my thoughts have a connection to what my body does and are thus separate from other bodies.

Who is the one relaxing a belief? Is there control over this moment of shift? A one who relaxes?
Just attention moving to the thought and then relaxing seems to happen when there is attention with no additional thought. No, I don’t find a one that controls this, just a thought of a one like ‘this hurts’ then attention moves and relaxation happens and a thought of relief and assumption that a me did it and did the right thing to feel better. But those are all thoughts so no actual me controlling.

My mind is always blown away every time I see this, even though I’ve seen it so many times, it still gets surprised and amazed not to find a me there, as if it’s the first time seeing it. Then it will go right back to forgetting and believing in it soon after. Is there something else to see for it to be permanent without forgetting and needing to keep looking and seeing it again?

Sorry I’m trying my best to keep it short and sweet, this is just how my mind processes things and I don’t have control anyway ;)
Thanks so much!

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri May 23, 2025 1:38 pm

I'll see what they say.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon May 26, 2025 1:00 pm

They had follow-up questions. I posted them a couple of days ago, but they're not here. Sorry.
.

“Is there something else to see for it to be permanent without forgetting and needing to keep looking and seeing it again?”

WHAT sees that there is no self?

Don’t answer. Look. Does anything see? Or is it just obvious, open, empty?

Look at the one who supposedly forgets. Can you find them? What is there to forget when there was never a self to remember in the first place?

Are you willing to let go of the hall monitor? To go direct?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Love210
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Love210 » Tue May 27, 2025 8:44 pm

Look at the one who supposedly forgets. Can you find them? What is there to forget when there was never a self to remember in the first place?
Yes it’s very clear there is nothing to forget or remember. What I meant by forget was when there is an experience of a belief in thought, even though there is no one there who believes it

Are you willing to let go of the hall monitor? To go direct?
Yes.

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Anastacia42
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Re: New to joining the group!

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu May 29, 2025 5:06 am

Okay, they're good so far. A different guide wants me to ask


It seems to me she gets as far as looking and seeing that 'she' doesn't find anything, but the looker stays intact, so the process repeats. The non-existent thing can keep trying to get out of the non-existent thing. She has a sharp mind and does a lot of looking, so can we ask her to go right to where the experience of the looking is happening and see what is it made of?

If the one looking is a thought, the act of looking is a thought and what is looked for is a thought, is anything else there, apart from thought-consciousness?

Can the fundamental polarity collapse; is there any need to uphold dualistic structure in relation to any of this?

Thank you
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti


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