Cheese

[Cheese]

I just know. Like I said it was more of a home than mysterious place.

[Magdalena]

I just know. Like I said it was more of a home than mysterious place.

Hey, I know what you said before. LOL

I’m not asking you for descriptions of what that childhood experience was like, and so on.

It is NOW a thought story – can you see this?


Anything that takes you into fantasising about the past or the future is a thought story.


Can you rely on what thoughts tell you?


So, the question is:
How can THIS (i.e. there being no separate self etc.) be known RIGHT NOW, without resorting to thought stories/imagination/memories/longing etc.?


Or, to rephrase the question,
What is there WITHOUT thought?


Focus on each these questions in turn, keep them in front of you, play with them at various moments of the day, and see what happens.

[Cheese]

Me.

[Magdalena]

What makes up the me?

[Cheese]

Space like thing, awareness. Calmness.

[Magdalena]

Tell me more.
How did the seeing of this happen?
How does it feel to be seeing this?
Is this the home you've been looking for?

[Cheese]

Tell me more.
How did the seeing of this happen?

It is what I was feeling yesterday. Being undisturbed by my thoughts or feelings.

How does it feel to be seeing this?

It is peaceful. I wish it was more often and for longer. But I did take some natural calming medicine yesterday. I’ll add that.

Is this the home you've been looking for?

Yes and no. Yes in a way - what else could I ask for I know I don’t need much. And no because there is more to it, that place above my body, that awareness is what will make me godly. Even though I know that that basic feeling described above is a prerequisite but it is rare for me to just relax.

[Magdalena]

It is what I was feeling yesterday. Being undisturbed by my thoughts or feelings.

And how is it now - without going back to thoughts and the stories they bring - RIGHT NOW?

...no because there is more to it, that place above my body, that awareness is what will make me godly.

Sorry, I don't quite get what you're saying.
What is "the place above the body" or awareness that can make one "godly" - what does it mean?

[Cheese]

And how is it now - without going back to thoughts and the stories they bring - RIGHT NOW?

It’s nothing maybe even a little boring if I don’t use thoughts. I still get bombarded by them. Expectations about something grandiose are there. :(

Sorry, I don't quite get what you're saying.
What is "the place above the body" or awareness that can make one "godly" - what does it mean?

Every time I had an awakening experience where I realised I don’t exist(as much as I remember) I had an OBE and felt divine connection.

[Magdalena]

… maybe even a little boring if I don’t use thoughts.

Tell me more about how you use thoughts.

Can you predict the next thought that comes?
Can you make a particular thought come?
Can you stop a thought from coming?

I still get bombarded by them.

And then what?

Expectations about something grandiose are there. :(

What makes you believe that your expectations are accurate?

Every time I had an awakening experience where I realised I don’t exist(as much as I remember) I had an OBE and felt divine connection.

Without resorting to thought, can you know what an "OBE" or “divine connection” is?


Remember to answer all the questions.

[Cheese]

Tell me more about how you use thoughts.

Well, there is some expectation for something to happen but if I use thoughts then that expectation is disappears. I can be in my head and occupy myself somehow.

Can you predict the next thought that comes?

No, but I can think one.

Can you make a particular thought come?

No, but I can think one:)

Can you stop a thought from coming?

If it is coming it has already come, I can stop the next one. Am I right?

I still get bombarded by them.

And then what?

I sometimes feel uncomfortable because I get uncomfortable thoughts. Especially if I am around people. I sort of use the present moment focus to improve something.

Expectations about something grandiose are there. :(

What makes you believe that your expectations are accurate?

They are not because nothing grandiose happens.

Without resorting to thought, can you know what an "OBE" or “divine connection” is?

It was a feeling. But I guess no.

[Magdalena]

Can you predict the next thought that comes? Can you make a particular thought come?
No, but I can think one.

Can you choose to think only pleasant thoughts then?

Can you stop a thought from coming?
If it is coming it has already come, I can stop the next one. Am I right?

Look into this again and tell me. 😉

I sometimes feel uncomfortable because I get uncomfortable thoughts.

So why not think ones that are comfortable instead?

What makes you believe that your expectations are accurate?
They are not because nothing grandiose happens.

Are thoughts in general (expectations are thoughts too, right?) reliable?

Without resorting to thought, can you know what an "OBE" or “divine connection” is?
It was a feeling. But I guess no.

“A feeling” is another way of saying “a thought”.
If you’ve never heard about OBEs or “divine connections”, would you be able to classify any phenomenon as such?

[Cheese]

Can you choose to think only pleasant thoughts then?

No.

Can you stop a thought from coming?
If it is coming it has already come, I can stop the next one. Am I right?

Look into this again and tell me. 😉

I can stop thoughts if I focus on myself but not too long because they still come or it means I lose hard focus of myself.

I sometimes feel uncomfortable because I get uncomfortable thoughts.

So why not think ones that are comfortable instead?

But those bad thoughts just creep in without my permission.

Are thoughts in general (expectations are thoughts too, right?) reliable?

If I do grocery shopping planning I might forget something but more or less it is reliable.

If you’ve never heard about OBEs or “divine connections”, would you be able to classify any phenomenon as such?

Yes, it was that profound. There were no words to describe it but the divine connection was known to be a fact and OBE is just simple words, I said "Have you ever seen yourself like this?" to my friends when we were playing Grand Theft Auto. (You see the character not from 1st person view but 3rd). Those are words I used without knowing about OBEs.

[Magdalena]

…those bad thoughts just creep in without my permission.

So it looks like thoughts are not under your control, right?

Meaning they do as they please and take no notice of you?


Do you even have any idea where thoughts come from, or where they go?

If I do grocery shopping planning I might forget something but more or less it is reliable.

Aren’t shopping thoughts related to seeing that the fridge looks empty?

Meaning that they are prompted by rather basic needs that we have learnt must be met?

… the divine connection was known to be a fact

How can it be known for a fact – unless by thought that relies on other thoughts, which as you have seen is hardly reliable?

Isn’t an “OBE” or “the divine connection” simply a mental label for a certain kind of experience?
Just like “eating dinner” or “anxiety” are mental labels for other kinds of experience, for instance?
No one gets born into this world with the knowledge of “OBE’s”, “divine connections”, “dinner”, “anxiety”, and all the rest, right?

Aren’t these mental labels merely human-made concepts: i.e. interpretations of various kinds of experience that we learn as we move along (from society, language, schooling, culture, etc.)?

[Cheese]

Yes.