Cheese

[Cheese]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I guess it means that the I that thinks thoughts is not the real I.

What are you looking for at LU?
Liberation. I want to be free. I want yo see my divinity like I did in childhood. I want to help people realise the same. In the end I guess happiness would suffice and I guess it is only liberation that can provide it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To see my true nature, the shift of perspective. To see I am not the separate self. To be free. I know this is possible. I am getting all the help I can when I am inspired. I have spoken with mojo, Rupert Spira, Terrence Stephens and now I’m inspired to register here.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I will copy paste a Reddit post I made.
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I can’t reawake, please help


In childhood I had plenty of these experiences of awakening. They say it doesn’t come out of nowhere but I think it did. So after the first one which I think happened in kindergarden I knew to practise not thinking and meditations about 40mins in the afternoon, getting in the flow or fighting some cravings seeing what they really are. I knew I was an illusion but people loved me. Some would call me “real” which is like the best compliment you can get. After that I used this knowledge to sabbotage myself just not till destroying myself by ignoring what I knew and identifying with thoughts.

During teenage years I had forgotten about it all mostly and at 19 I would say I “overdosed” on marijuana and thought I will loose my awareness. I thought of what would that mean to me and my mother, like I would be a vegetable but worse. I felt deep guilt and sadness for what had I done. It was unbearable and I could not stop it and then..poof.. I was home. I saw myself from outside the body. It’s like I had lost it but never had, I have been there but I can’t compare it with previous times. And after some time I really wanted to come down.

During that last coming home I saw myself being completely bald and surrounded by ocean. I didn’t think I would ever be bald but now at 30+ I am almost completely bald and I am a seafarer surrounded by water as I write this. Was it all a seeing in the future? I have hated my profession and wanted to change it. Is it possible? Am I in denial?

Help me please, I want to be sorted out, happy and fulfilled. I am at work now, but would like to go for a one or two day retreat when I am home. I meditate almost everyday focusing on the I am sense like I did in childhood when awakenings would happen, as suggested. But I have not had had the awakening for 14 years now. I really want to awaken! Do you have suggestions? I have been trying but nothing.
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For the past few weeks I have been self abiding 24/7 focusing on the I am sense. I reread Nisargadattas quote book. I have read his other books, Ramana’s and recently Eckhart Tolle’s a new earth.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Magdalena]

Hello Cheese (is that what you’d like me to call you, or some other name?),

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Magdalena and I’m happy to assist you.

You say you want

Liberation. I want to be free. I want yo see my divinity like I did in childhood. I want to help people realise the same. In the end I guess happiness would suffice and I guess it is only liberation that can provide it.

Looks like you’ve accumulated many ideas about what “liberation” and “freedom” are all about.
For one thing, you seem to believe “liberation” is the way to attain happiness. Why would that be? (other than because some “spiritual teachers” say so)?

From your reddit post it sounds like you’re equating “liberation” etc. with altered states and mystical experiences. That keeps you stuck to the apparent past, glued to your memories and hopes to repeat them. Can you see this?


Please answer all my questions. Before you do, please watch this short video to learn how to use the Quote function which we will need in our conversation: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/na ... php?t=660

 

[Cheese]

You say you want

For one thing, you seem to believe “liberation” is the way to attain happiness. Why would that be? (other than because some “spiritual teachers” say so)?

This was my experience as described above.

From your reddit post it sounds like you’re equating “liberation” etc. with altered states and mystical experiences. That keeps you stuck to the apparent past, glued to your memories and hopes to repeat them. Can you see this?

Those weren’t mystical experiences. It was home, it was the most ordinary experience even if does not seem like that now. I don’t know what is it but my mind is on these past experiences, yes.

[Cheese]

Also, you can call me Artur if you wish..

[Magdalena]

Hello, Artur,

Nice to meet you. :)

This was my experience as described above.

I see. But then it did not last, right? So what makes you believe that happiness is a marker of "awakening" or "liberation"?

Those weren’t mystical experiences. It was home, it was the most ordinary experience even if does not seem like that now. I don’t know what is it but my mind is on these past experiences, yes.

I get it.So what is it in your current experience that makes it not-home, so to speak?

[Cheese]

Nice to meet you. :)

Nice to meet you.

I see. But then it did not last, right? So what makes you believe that happiness is a marker of "awakening" or "liberation"?

It did not last but it was something I was looking forward to in childhood and I believe the aftereffect was happiness. Why else pursue liberation? Can we be liberated and unhappy?

I get it.So what is it in your current experience that makes it not-home, so to speak?

In some way I am always home whatever I am feeling. It is not so bad now, I guess I feel pretty at home at the moment even if it is not that experience.

[Magdalena]

Hello, Artur,

It did not last but it was something I was looking forward to in childhood and I believe the aftereffect was happiness.

If you’re seeking a confirmation of your belief here, I cannot offer that to you.
Instead, let me invite you to question this belief of yours by asking the simplest question ever, i.e. “How do I know it for a fact?”

Why else pursue liberation?

Good point. Why pursue anything at all?

Can we be liberated and unhappy?

What makes you think that being “liberated” is only milk and honey?
Isn’t it kind of like you want just one half of the cake, rather than the whole cake?

In some way I am always home whatever I am feeling.

See? Can you be anywhere else?

It is not so bad now, I guess I feel pretty at home at the moment even if it is not that experience.

So what is missing?

[Cheese]

Hello, Artur,

If you’re seeking a confirmation of your belief here, I cannot offer that to you.
Instead, let me invite you to question this belief of yours by asking the simplest question ever, i.e. “How do I know it for a fact?”

It was not a fact. I remember now.

Good point. Why pursue anything at all?

It's just what happens.

What makes you think that being “liberated” is only milk and honey?
Isn’t it kind of like you want just one half of the cake, rather than the whole cake?

As above said, I remember now. It was also misery but I had a big bomb trauma happen to me. I guess I want the whole cake.

See? Can you be anywhere else?

No but sometimes it feels like it is not home. I have been interacting with other people who I think can help. And one person to the above Reddit post said that their intuition is saying I don't trust that I am where I am supposed to be on this spiritual journey.

So what is missing?

I guess THAT experience. There is some lack but I don't know what it is. I will go to sleep in a bit.

[Magdalena]

Hello, Artur,

It was not a fact. I remember now.

OK. Whenever some belief or other crops up, it’s good to ask that question: “How do I know it for a fact?”

It's just what happens.

Right.

I guess I want the whole cake.

Not that there is much choice. LOL

No but sometimes it feels like it is not home.

So what? Some people feel the earth is flat – does that change anything?

I have been interacting with other people who I think can help.

You know what, I would suggest that you pursue only one conversation that you think can help at a time. There’s little point in us talking here while someone else feeds you their ideas, however attractive they may appear to be. So you’d be better off pursuing that interaction you’re having with someone till the end, and then coming back here if you’re still interested.

And one person to the above Reddit post said that their intuition is saying I don't trust that I am where I am supposed to be on this spiritual journey.

We don’t do spiritual journeys here on LU, sorry.

So what is missing?

I guess THAT experience. There is some lack but I don't know what it is.

How do you know that THAT experience will fix it all for you?
You’re after a repeat experience that you hope will take you back to that home, peace, bliss or whatever. What if this was not to happen – ever?

I will go to sleep in a bit.

Sweet dreams. ;-)
Let me know where we stand.

[Cheese]

Hello again Magdalena. My phone broke which is my main source of Internet and I have been traveling home from work.°So I have not been able to reply. I am now at my mother's place using her wifi.

OK. Whenever some belief or other crops up, it’s good to ask that question: “How do I know it for a fact?”

Ok.

So what? Some people feel the earth is flat – does that change anything?

I guess now.

You know what, I would suggest that you pursue only one conversation that you think can help at a time. There’s little point in us talking here while someone else feeds you their ideas, however attractive they may appear to be. So you’d be better off pursuing that interaction you’re having with someone till the end, and then coming back here if you’re still interested.

Well it happened before I ever posted here so it's been one conversation at a time.

We don’t do spiritual journeys here on LU, sorry.

Yeah ok - walk of life.

How do you know that THAT experience will fix it all for you?
You’re after a repeat experience that you hope will take you back to that home, peace, bliss or whatever. What if this was not to happen – ever?

I don't know if it will fix it all for me. I guess there's hope that it will. Then I would be sad initially maybe.

[Magdalena]

Hello there,

Good to hear from you.

So what comes up when the following is read:

There is no separate self now; there never was; there never can be?

[Cheese]

First thought - yes I know.
Second - what is separate self?
Third - nothing.

[Magdalena]

First thought - yes I know.

Without thought stories, how do you know?

[Cheese]

First thought - yes I know.

Without thought stories, how do you know?

From my childhood. The stories or one of them described.

[Magdalena]

My question.was:
How do you know that WITHOUT THOUGHT STORIES, i.e.without referencing anything that arrives via thought?