Help with the selfing please

[JonathanR]

Hi Angela

Thanks so much for answering my questions. It’s great to read about your journey. It’s all interesting.

To offer you something potentially helpful or useful now I’d say that it’s just these doubts you speak of that we should look at.

Forming a few useful questions will take me a little bit of time to consider. I may write again this evening or sometime tomorrow.

Jon

[Agroundagain]

Hi Jon,

Thanks very much - I know you are busy - so no hurry!

It's all very much appreciated!

All the best
Angela

[JonathanR]

Angela

I’m sorry but I did actually write again at some length with various questions and I sent it too, but I can see it hasn’t been received by the forum!

This means some delay whilst I write again.

I’m sorry for this

Jon

[Agroundagain]

Hi Jon,

Oh no - I hate it when that happens!

No problem and again no hurry.

I am beavering away with work on my applications so it's all good.

Thanks and all the best
Angela

[JonathanR]

Hi Angela

No, in truth, deeper than my literate mind, I know I don't make this happen. But if the hook gets a hold, I believe it and think it's me, until I remember. But ultimately there is an understanding greater than this that it's just happening.

Great. We aim to see clearly that even when beliefs somehow reappear, that they are not pointing to some fixed and separate entity

Do you notice that it’s not really possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? But there are two aspects to thought, 1) the fact that thoughts actually do turn up and 2) that each thought “says” something, or is “about” something.

Then I realise I have no control and let this be, but I also then wonder if I'm bypassing. Can you see how the hook is sneaky?

Yes. It tends to be where the head gets involved in thinking thoughts about and conceptualising about things, and there quickly forms an interpretation that there is a “me with problems”. Almost anything other than further rumination on this level can help.( I don’t want to prescribe. It’s up to each of us to notice what helps, but, for instance, personally, a small amount of exercise or perhaps a walk round the park really does the trick.

Of course, some experiences are plainly uncomfortable. Rationalising about “no self” whilst actually starving or freezing cold is not a great idea.

I'm sure also the sleep is an escape from the truth too - which is probably another thing to look at.

I don’t know. Sleep can be very helpful sometimes. Having forced myself at a young age to meditate for a long time each day I know all about going to sleep. In my case it wasn't much about avoidance but more about noticing my mistaken approach.

I see anxiety coming but it barely gets a hold. There will be deeper layers of darkness I am sure but generally I am no longer hyper vigilant. I am ok not having to control outcomes. Being free of this is has been a huge gift.

Well that is fantastic! Yes. A willingness to accept and even embrace and thank the darkness can be really helpful.



Best wishes

Jon

[Agroundagain]

Hey Jon,

I was just about to go out for a run - with my lovely dog - when I saw your message.
I thought I'd read it first & they you said -

Funny

Almost anything other than further rumination on this level can help.( I don’t want to prescribe. It’s up to each of us to notice what helps, but, for instance, personally, a small amount of exercise or perhaps a walk round the park really does the trick.

Exercise is great!
Thanks for all
Angela

[JonathanR]

Ha ha ha!

Nicely synchronous! Did the run help?


Jon

[Agroundagain]

Hi Jon,

Yes running always helps. So does the dog! was going to say the god!

Happy Monday - I know you're in the UK also, hopefully it's sunny where you are also!

All the best
Angela

[JonathanR]

Hi Angela

Yes, it was sunny here today too thanks.

I like that! … the “god” :-)

Well, really it just seems to be doubts that need addressing? For instance, the idea that perhaps there’s only an intellectual understanding or that you’re “bypassing”?

Love

Jon

[Agroundagain]

Good Morning Jon,

Yes. Though I had a rare quite bad nights sleep last night. I am about to do a Maths GCSE paper to get into psychology and it's become apparent that the information isn't sticking & I probably won't pass. I've only been studying for 4 weeks and havne't done maths since I was 15 when I left school, so it's no surprise. But this story of failure was intense. In reality I don't actually mind. There have been many setbacks but a knowing it's just what's happening and can always tap into a source of energy and enthusiasm. The opposite of the swan. Hysteria on top! But - is this just hope? 'I tell myself' that I am ok, but story? Is this bypassing?

Yes doubt :) And being caught by the hook.

Have a good day
Thanks
Angela

[JonathanR]

Hi Angela

Though I had a rare quite bad nights sleep last night.

So did I, oddly. Woke at 2am and was still awake at 3.30am.

But this story of failure was intense. In reality I don't actually mind. There have been many setbacks but a knowing it's just what's happening and can always tap into a source of energy and enthusiasm. The opposite of the swan. Hysteria on top! But - is this just hope? 'I tell myself' that I am ok, but story? Is this bypassing?

Well, what comes up straight away is “So what?” Who is answerable to whom or what?

So, it might be bypassing, but you wouldn’t be the first or last to have bypassy thoughts. But every so often you’re reporting a kind of confidence in what’s seen, that setbacks are just part of what’s happening. And yes, this could turn into a kind of hollow, bypassy mantra for a while :-)

But who cares? Maybe it’s a game of hide and seek, or something?

What do you say?

Love

Jon

[Agroundagain]

But who cares? Maybe it’s a game of hide and seek, or something?

What do you say?

Totally - that occurred also.
I hear my mother, of 35 years ago, saying 'don't take yourself so seriously' and can no smile.

Love back
Angela

[JonathanR]

Hi Angela,

Mine said something similar.

Well, now, your inquiry is in your hands, so to speak. If there are any persisting doubts that just keep showing up please let me know these,

What you could try, when you detect doubtful or confused thoughts, is to say to them “gently, gently, come in and let me see you, make yourself at home. Tell me what’s up”. Like the one about bypassing. Find out what the feeling or sensation is that goes with such doubts.

Love

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hi Angela,

Mine said something similar.

Well, now, your inquiry is in your hands, so to speak. If there are any persisting doubts that just keep showing up please let me know these,

What you could try, when you detect doubtful or confused thoughts, is to say to them “gently, gently, come in and let me see you, make yourself at home. Tell me what’s up”. Like the one about bypassing. Find out what the feeling or sensation is that goes with such doubts.

Love

Jon

[Agroundagain]

Hi Jon,

Thanks yes will give it a go!

I think it's Loch Kelly who says something like - everyone is welcome - is there is doubt, I invite doubt too, to come on in and sit down.

In fact it was prob nothing like... ha!

I will get back to you soon

Thanks
Angela