From hunch to knowledge

[Liberella0]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Yes, the second one, the one without the I and me everything felt more immediate

2. What is here without labels?

Sensations, but even those are labels...occurrences, appearences

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Affect them, there is no neutral description. Labelling brings in thoughts

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? They are there. Look.

my body was much more relaxed in the 2nd exercise and the body felt less boundaried. I really slowed down in round 2.

Thank you so much for these, Stacey

[Anastacia42]

Good. Close.

2. Direct Experience which does include Sensations

3. No. There's a pointer for this.


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?
[/color]

Loving,

[Liberella0]

Hi Stacey,
Apologies, I have been so busy w work...I'll have a look at your questions over the next couple of days. Still doing the experience exercises.

Looking forward to going into the next steps

Ella

[Anastacia42]

Okay, I'll watch for your answers.

Remember, awakening happens Now not in "next steps."

Only expectations & fears, thoughts, can prevent seeing

Loving,

[Liberella0]

Good point re the "next steps"...noted.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

thr label is more experienced than the colour. Or the focus is more on the meaning than on the colour. But maybe slight confusion, hesitation. Initially I hadn't even noticed the red writing or that it was part of th3 task.

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

not experienced, but imagined.

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

No, the color is wrong for the label and the label does not correspond w the label it is presented in.

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)? No, actually, the label GREEN does not take away from the fact that the colour is red

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

a word label. Doeant change RED

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

NO

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

NO effect

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

Reminder:
Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

You cannot actually experience Green. There's no Green anywhere.

Let that sink in. This is exactly what we do with "self." There is no self anywhere. It is only a thought, just like Green is only a thought.

The red color IS experienced. Green is not.

Please answer these questions again.

Loving,
Loving,

[Liberella0]

Hi Stacey, thanks for the clarification... I'll revisit

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

The actual experience is seeing red lines. Lines in the colour of red

I

s the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

red is the experience... but it is HARD to not jump to imagining anything green. It is so in the foreground, but, yes, the actual experience is that of red lines.

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

No, they are only linked in the mind

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

yes, eintirely, nothing NOTHING to do with the actual experience

I

s green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

yes, just a label, has nothing to do with reality

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Absolutely not... it is still the experience of red lines.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

doesn't change one bit... I am fascinated how quickly the mind creates reactions and then claims them to be experiences. Like creating different internal sensations it wants to label emotions. But the actual experience doesn't change... red is red.

Thank you... my mind is protesting... loudly, but, so what...
with love, Ella

[Anastacia42]

but it is HARD to not jump to imagining anything green.

my mind is protesting... loudly, but, so what...

Yes, that's how "hard" you'll find it to admit there is no actual "self." Is really simple, but you may fight it.

Next pointer. You're going to love this one. ;)

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[Anastacia42]

FYI if you're interested.

Seeing Through The Self Illusion

20th of August
90 min long

4 pm London
5 pm Paris
8 am San Francisco
11 am New York

Link to all monthly Zoom Meetings

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9143364592?pw ... VEMHg2Zz09

Monthly group meetings are free. Just come.
If you would like to donate, I would appreciate it. You can do that through PayPal here.

With love,

Ilona

[Liberella0]

Hi Stacey,
Apologies for the long silence, I had difficulties getting into the website.. email related blah blah..here I am. And I worked w a lemon, that yellow thing.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Content of thoughts... lemon, bought today, for the salad, I like lemon juice, I am looking at a lemon. Fruit , round, sour
Weird pointy end. This is a lemon.

Is there really an ‘lemon’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘lemon’?

A split second it's a colour, then the mind goes ITS A LEMON!!

Can ‘lemon’ be found in actual experience?

No, just a yellow thing, I can touch it, but LEMON is a concept. As is fruit or sour or, juice..bone of that is 'here".

However, is an lemon actually known?

Only from memory..what I have learned from others and my own experience (the sour taste)

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

A tussle...the longer I looked the less of a lemon I saw, just yellow and that I can touch it. The concept waned a but the mind was desperate to claim it.

Thank you ... Nice thing to play with in meetings 😀

[Liberella0]

Hi Stacey,
Apologies for the long silence, I had difficulties getting into the website.. email related blah blah..here I am. And I worked w a lemon, that yellow thing.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Content of thoughts... lemon, bought today, for the salad, I like lemon juice, I am looking at a lemon. Fruit , round, sour
Weird pointy end. This is a lemon.

Is there really an ‘lemon’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘lemon’?

A split second it's a colour, then the mind goes ITS A LEMON!!

Can ‘lemon’ be found in actual experience?

No, just a yellow thing, I can touch it, but LEMON is a concept. As is fruit or sour or, juice..bone of that is 'here".

However, is an lemon actually known?

Only from memory..what I have learned from others and my own experience (the sour taste)

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

A tussle...the longer I looked the less of a lemon I saw, just yellow and that I can touch it. The concept waned a but the mind was desperate to claim it.

Thank you ... Nice thing to play with in meetings 😀

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

No "e" in my name.

Nice thing to play with in meetings 😀

Funny. Yes, whenever & wherever you can.

Here's another aspect:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,