Let's gooooo

[graceabounds]

sounds good
:)

[megacoolname]

Forget “apple.” Forget “fruit.” Forget “object.” Forget even “thing.”

Now tell me: What is ACTUALLY here?

It's hard to say, there's just life in general, and seeing.

Describe it without concepts.
Not “red” or “smooth” or “round.”
These are still conceptual overlays.

Go underneath.
What is here in pure sensory terms?

In pure sensory terms, there is seeing, I'm unsure if it's possible to describe it with words when you remove the concepts.

Texture (if it is in your hand)… but without using the word smooth. What actually is the texture?

If i keep rubbing an apple and focusing on the texture, the wall between me and the texture kinda fall off. The texture is a part of my direct experience, not something separate from me.

Where is the “apple-ness”? Can it be found? Or is it only ever an invisible overlay?

Yep, apple is a concept, but the concept is attached on something that I can't describe without concepts (an apple)

And now… who is it that sees this as apple?

Can that “who” be located? Or is that just another flavor of the same overlay, this time called “me”?

Often when I think about this who, it creates a witness witnessing the "me", and then who is seeing the witness? Then it's just a loop/cascade of witnesses :P
If I give up on the idea of a witness, there is just what there is, including a sensation of "me", floating around, indeed as an idea, an overlay.

[megacoolname]

I skipped a few questions because I had no clue how to answer them xD I'm unsure if anyone could ever answer them.

[graceabounds]

If I give up on the idea of a witness, there is just what there is, including a sensation of "me", floating around, indeed as an idea, an overlay.

Yes exactly. Is ‘witness’ anything but a concept?

Is the sensation of floating around locatable? If so, where would it be centered?

I skipped a few questions because I had no clue how to answer them xD I'm unsure if anyone could ever answer them.

No thought could answer them surely. All of this is just pointing to something that cannot be answered in the habitual logical way (if it is answered at all).

If i keep rubbing an apple and focusing on the texture, the wall between me and the texture kinda fall off. The texture is a part of my direct experience, not something separate from me

Yes. Shall we play with sound next?

For this exercise you will need to sit yourself near a clock that has an audible second hand. If you don’t have a ticking clock, then search for ticking clock on Youtube.

Allow your eyes to close gently.
Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”
Focus on the tick tock. Attune to the sound itself. IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.
Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?

Allow your eyes to open.
Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?
Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

[megacoolname]

Is the sensation of floating around locatable? If so, where would it be centered?

It's around my chest and sometimes around my body

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?

if I strictly go by the sound, no I can't find a clock present, but the idea that it does come from a clock is very strong and present

2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?

Directly, no. Only indirectly, as the "knowledge" that it comes from a clock

3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?

No, it gets labelled

4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?

no

5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?

In the sound itself, no. but the sound is surrounded by ideas, concepts, knowledge about the clock, and in these ways, the clock is found. I guess it's not direct experience of the sound itself, but direct experience of the ideas, concept and knowledge?

6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?

No

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

Not by the sound itself, no. But the knowledge of a clock is here

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?

Yes, with spatial sensation that the sound is outside the body, and that it is "separated" by my ears, also the separation is made stronger by my constant tinnitus.
I know it's not the answer you expect, but that's how I experience it xD

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

I can't find such line, the knowing comes built-in with the sound

also, happy new year ;)

[graceabounds]

Hello Mega,

Happy New Year.

[

quote]Is the sensation of floating around locatable? If so, where would it be centered?

It's around my chest and sometimes around my body[/quote]

Great. Is it pleasant or unpleasant?
And what about this sensation (just the sensation without the ‘I’ thought) says ‘me’?

I know it's not the answer you expect, but that's how I experience it xD

The answer I expect is what is what is honest, and that is happening, so great. :)

The sense of “ear”, can you find it directly?

Not the word “ear.” Not the image of your head.
But in raw sensation is there an ear?

Can it be found? Or just inferred?

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface). Close your eyes.

Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'?
What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Much love,
Becca

[megacoolname]

Great. Is it pleasant or unpleasant?
And what about this sensation (just the sensation without the ‘I’ thought) says ‘me’?

it is rather pleasant.
the sensation is like a thin film around my skin, delimiting the body. That's how it says "me"

Not the word “ear.” Not the image of your head.
But in raw sensation is there an ear?

Can it be found? Or just inferred?

yes I feel my inner ear, a bit heavy and dry

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

there is only one thing

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

no, but the idea of a feeler comes and go

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

there's just a sensation

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'?

There's only a sensation. Desk and hand all in one.

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

I can't find of even really feel and inherent feeler. At worst, sometime the idea that it is the hand feeling the desk can come, but it's not very strong and if I focus, I realize it's purely a concept/an idea

[graceabounds]

Great, so again with the desk.


Desk and hand all one. Experience this now. No inherent feeler.

How does the sensation of the thin film relate to or interact with this one thing? Is it present? Is it separate?

Is ‘me’ needed here?

[megacoolname]

Great, so again with the desk.


Desk and hand all one. Experience this now. No inherent feeler.

How does the sensation of the thin film relate to or interact with this one thing? Is it present? Is it separate?

Is ‘me’ needed here?

by "this one thing" do you mean "me"? It relates to a me simply through an idea that it is the delimitation of me. It is present as an idea, again floating around.
It feels separate to the thin film feeling, I guess it could be there without the "me" feeling associated with it.

[graceabounds]

by "this one thing" do you mean "me"?

No, I mean the entire field of experience undivided.

Desk-hand-film-sensation-thought-space allllll showing up as one seamless flow.

I guess it could be there without the "me" feeling associated with it

So sit in that. Find out if it can be. Let sensation be what it is, without “me.”
Let the world happen.. without “mine.”

What emerges?

[megacoolname]

What emerges?

It feels like it weakens the "me", that it brings me closer to oneness. But I'm not sure if it's just hope and a trick of my mind, like wishful thinking/feeling

[graceabounds]

It is the opposite of a trick of the mind :)
All the rest has been a trick, an illusion.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, watch like a hawk, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

[megacoolname]

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

I'm right handed, so the first time I did this exercise, due to habit, I raised my right hand.
The second time, I raised the left one, due to a though pattern that I have that says I should alternate things.
So, I'd say it's mainly habits, though patterns, that are "choosing" which hand to raise

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

No, I can ffind the feeling of an individual choosing, but even this feeling isn't really strong. And I find no individual behind this feeling.

What is it that is controlling the hand?

I'd say, habits (choosing the right hand due to being right handed), and before that, reading your exercise that lead me to do this with my hands. So, it's like a chain of events leading to that.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Only the feeling of a controller

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

Only a chain of events that lead to the hand moving

How is the decision made?

Well, I feel like there is the chain of events leading to moving the hand, and before moving the hand, the feeling of decision arises, somehow. I don't know why.

[graceabounds]

Hi!

Very good. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

No, I can ffind the feeling of an individual choosing, but even this feeling isn't really strong. And I find no individual behind this feeling.

Exactly. Can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

Here is an investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.
Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colors and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, perhaps some parts of the body (legs, for example) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?


Enjoy!

[megacoolname]

Exactly. Can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

Nah, a feeling can't choose, it can just be felt.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

There are only thoughts suggesting a link

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

Again, there are only thoughts suggesting a connection, and these actually lag behind when I move my hand.

4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

Still only thoughts suggesting a connection

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colors and shapes?

Just the image by itself suggests nothing, there is only seeing

(6) Where the mirror ends, perhaps some parts of the body (legs, for example) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

In a mirror where I can't see my legs, I have some sensations of my legs and my mind links that as being knowledge that there must be legs, so I guess yet again it's just "mental images suggesting so" :)

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

Only sensations/seeing. If there is a body, it is only in thoughts

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

yet again it's all just in thoughts

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Well, location feels like a concept in the mind, I can kinda ignore it and see only the images and sensations


Side-note about hearing, if I drop the intellect, it happens that I feel "me" in sounds that aren't from my body, then I only witness the tinnitus and ear sensations in parallel with "external" sounds, whom in then end don't feel external, That has happened a few times for a few seconds these last days, when I focus on hearing without thinking