Help with the first fetter, plz

[Anastacia42]

Alright. First. remember to post only one quoted question, then the answer. Another quoted question then the answer. One at a time, please.

So, you're mostly thinking & not LOOKING..

Let's start with a pointer about truth. Then we'll do one about labels

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Chrisd]

What is found?

Hi Stacy, I recently lied to my boss about needing the day off for childcare. At the time It felt very uncomfortable but recalling the moment of sending the email I can describe rhe sensations a bit more.

First it feels like my eyes or eyelids are vibrating, there's also a anticlockwise circling sensation between and behind the eyes. Further down sinking or imploding movement in the chest toward the spine, in the solar plexus region there's a rising converging movement. My thighs feel energised as though I was about to jump up. All of these sensations flow and interconnect, thoughts about them increase the tension in my cheek bones. So broadly as you describe above, heaviness, tightness in the chest and solar plexus.

I did notice just then when writing a sudden pause to think if the words were true/accurate, it felt like self monitoring and a bit like lying and had simmilar sensations.

I think I need to fine tune the looking, so will keep doing this exercise. How about the other exercises, are they to be kept ongoing?
Thx again

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Good. The broad Sensations are enough.

No, each pointer builds on the last one. Just learn what it has to offer & move on.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[Chrisd]

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

There is a huge amount of trying to confirm they this is a real apple in my hand." I wish I could draw it, what separates me and this apple, if I pick it up that will confirm that it's real, I'll know because the sensations correlate exactly with the image and colour".

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Only thought, colour/form, and sensation when I picked it up and smell it. There is no apple in direct experience. This does not dispell the seeming realness of this apple.

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

No an apple is not known, just an amalgam of sensations, colour and thought. This was units going in an apply crumble which is only a thought at the moment 😂

[Anastacia42]

I'll be right over for some of that apple crumble!

But you're right - no apple.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Loving,

[Chrisd]

How does it FEEL to see this?

Oh that was weird, for just a second there was just sensation and colour. The thoughts then started up and it was an apple. For a moment It felt like a feeling of weight and this bouncing form floating in mid-air, hard to describe, every time I try the experiment it has a different outcome.

[Anastacia42]

Right! Only Sensation & Color.

https://youtu.be/uAXtO5dMqEI?si=R56yPnw9FpTOLQm-

Do that some more.

Loving,

[Chrisd]

How does it FEEL to see this?

I don't seem to be able to create a large enough gap for the illusion of apple to fall.

However walking around outside things do appear very different. Objects appear to be surrounded by a 'halo' when the urge to look at them arises.

Sometimes the whole field of vision turns into something like a pixelated Mandela which is quite unnerving in mid conversation lol.

Regardless the sense of a separate self is still very real, as is the apple. I will keep trying

[Anastacia42]

walking around outside things do appear very different. Objects appear to be surrounded by a 'halo' when the urge to look at them arises.

Sometimes the whole field of vision turns into something like a pixelated Mandela which is quite unnerving in mid conversation lol.

That's odd. Usually, that is the end of it & no separate "self" is found. That sounds like the shift in perception we're looking for.

Can you find any separate "self" when this is happening?

If so, please describe the Direct Experience.

If not. how does it FEEL to see no self?



Loving,

[Chrisd]

Can you find any separate "self" when this is happening?

It's hard to say, but no, just the contractions felt as sensation, the self feels like a bit of an avatar at this point.

If so, please describe the Direct Experience

It feels like objects are mirrored in the bodily sensation. As though they are casting a shadow the sensation shadow moves at the same rate as the object, this feels a bit like me, I can't really describe the direct experience sorry.

If not. how does it FEEL to see no self?

feels very ordinary, I have no evidence for a separate self, and yet... 🤔

[Anastacia42]

I have no evidence for a separate self, and yet... 🤔

Yes. You will never find any.

All you will find is thoughts & the lying Sensa.

Check. Isn't that all you've got?

Loving,

[Chrisd]

Isn't that all you've got?

Yes, there is nothing else in these moments, and they are becoming quite frequent day by day.

But I don't have this 100% certainty that the 1st fetter has fallen. There was no moment of realisation, How will I know?

Thanks again Stacy you are very patient 😀

[Anastacia42]

There may be no "moment of realization.." It may be gradual & unremarkable.

We look for a shift in perception.

Is this or is this not a shift in perception?

walking around outside things do appear very different. Objects appear to be surrounded by a 'halo' when the urge to look at them arises.

Sometimes the whole field of vision turns into something like a pixelated Mandela which is quite unnerving in mid conversation lol.

What more do you want?

Do you find a "self" or not?

Loving,

[Chrisd]

Heya, hmm I'm 95% certain I'm not here now. Things are moving

All you will find is thoughts & the lying Sensa

Just to clarify, I thought senses were direct experience/ fact? Still working on your last reply

[Anastacia42]

Yes, watching for your replies. Meanwhile:


Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,