Help with the first fetter, plz

[Chrisd]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I believe the illusion of a separate self is illusive and that many people would benefit from a few gentle pointers to help them see the reality that there isn't one. I feel their is a doer, that the choices made are independent and that I can choose do do anything I want at any moment.

What are you looking for at LU? I'm looking for some help seeing through this first fetter. My understanding is only conceptual. Even in deep states of samaddhi I feel their is a solid core that sits at the centre of experience, some help softening the boundaries would be great.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I'm not entirely sure, I expect to have a frank and authentic conversation about where "I" am on the path, perhaps unlearn something new 😅. Have listened to some sessions with Ilona and resonate with the transmission

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have spent 10 years going to Vipassana, have a 45 mins daily mediation and have spent 12 years picking up all kinds of nonsense about spirituality. Through some grace I have met people further on the path who have helped, and LU seems like where things are heading now to see things as they truly are. Let's hope .

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

Good morning (here in Colorado),

have spent 12 years picking up all kinds of nonsense about spirituality.

Pretty funny & probably very true.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Chrisd]

Hi Stacy, many thanks for your time, really excited to get started and meet. Will endeavour to message every day and will take some time looking into those questions posted.

Thanks again, Chris

[Anastacia42]

Sounds good, Chris.

Thank you,

[Chrisd]

How will life change?

This question has me puzzled. I expect my experience of life to deepen, perhaps become more technicolour. I imagine through reduction in craving and aversion life will feel less cyclical and perhaps happier.

How will you change?

I imagine that I will become more peacefull and patient. Emotions will not feel so trapped and their energy will dissipate or go where it's needed. I know their is no me but a strong sense of doing still persists so does the confusion this causes, perhaps this will change once the first fetter falls.]

What will be different?

I dont imagine much will differ, from what I've read life carries on. I don't expect any fireworks or persistent changes to sensory perception, although some suggest breaking the 6th fetter has this quality.]

What is missing?

This is easy, the 100% certainty of breaking the first fetter that Christiane Michelberger mentions on page 57 of How to see through the self illusion.]

[Anastacia42]

Re- read the instructions, please. Blue is for the questions I post for you to answer.

Thank you for using the Quote feature.

Good. Your expectations are pretty reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Loving,

[Chrisd]

Yeah sorry Stacy, I tried every color and they all came out purple, not sure what's happened. Will have another try

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

You do.not use any color for your replies. Just plain black

[Chrisd]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

I feel resistance to dropping the illusion. I know that the self is a fabrication, but this knowing does not seem to change the deeper reality and stubborn sense of a separate self.

I need to see proof that the self is undeniably absent. That's where the resistance comes from I guess.

[Anastacia42]

You will. It is actually pretty easy.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Chrisd]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

That seems clear, the content of thought plus the energetic signature appear to be a sticking point for and where the me shows up. Thanks again.

[Anastacia42]

Weill, other than I have *no* idea what an "energetic signatire" is other than some made up story, but skip that for now,

You're close.

"Me" is a contraction. tightness, a heavy Sensation plus content of thought.

Here's your first pointer:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Chrisd]

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Driving to work:
Seeing a car , simply= image/color
Smelling freshly laid asphalt, simply = smell
Feeling the steering wheel, simply = sensation
Tasting the morning toothpaste, simply = taste
Hearing the engine, simply sound
Thought about being cut up, simply = thought

Sitting in a meeting:
Seeing people sat around a projector; simple image/colour
Smelling my new shirt: simply smell
Feeling the overheating laptop on my lap, simply sensation
Tasting the acrid remains of the toothpaste: simply taste.
Hearing voices and wind rattling the door: simply sound
Thinking about upcoming redundancy: simply thought.

Something like that? I have been doing this exercise nonstop today, quite relaxing.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, good. You've got it. Now this:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Loving,

[Chrisd]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Hi Stacy, just found a spare 20 mins. I will answer as accurately as possible.

1.I couldn't say one was truer, but I had to remember to add my self to each experience and found that added a sense of tension and urgency.

2.without labels, I feel a barage of sensory information and my mind wants to identify everything the attention lands on. With a label it feels it can then move to the next object of awareness

3. The labels seem to activate the mind and stir up more thoughts, more thoughts causing more sensation in the body. labeling happens automatically most of the time I noticed.

4. Without adding me or mine or I to the noticing the mind seemed to relax after some time and the attention moved inward to bodily sensation, so I guess I just became more aware of that.