Back for guidance

[AwayKen127]

To put an even finer point on it: "Same" is a category created by thought. There is no "same" or "different" in actual experience. Look for sameness right here, right now, without thinking. What do you SEE? Then, can you notice as the thought "same" arises? What does the thought sound and feel like in actual experience?

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff thanks for guidance, it can get frustrating but I will continue to disect! Nothing to report from looking yesterday.

There is no "same" or "different" in actual experience. Look for sameness right here, right now, without thinking. What do you SEE? Then, can you notice as the thought "same" arises? What does the thought sound and feel like in actual experience?

I will do this exercise today and report back.

[Russ84]

Look for sameness right here, right now, without thinking. What do you SEE?

I can't find sameness anywhere prior to thought

Then, can you notice as the thought "same" arises? What does the thought sound and feel like in actual experience?

This one is tricky and I will stick with it another day. It's hard to notice the thought when it arises. There seems to be at least a verbal thought of same / similar, but I can't notice anything clearly to give a description of sound and feeling.

[Russ84]

Still struggling with noticing how the thought feels and sounds. It's hard to notice the thought clearly, at times it seems like there's a vocal thought of same and at other times a visual though. Not sure how to describe what that feels like.

[AwayKen127]

Not sure how to describe what that feels like.

Sorry, I was unclear. The thought "same" will sound like the spoken word. Also, there will be an accompanying sensation in the body together with another thought that claims that the sensation validates or invalidates the first thought: "I feel relaxation/expansion, therefore the thought is true." Or, "I feel tension/contraction, therefore the thought is false."

These sensations plus thoughts ("feelings") also seem to tell you what is real and what is unreal. Of course, they can't and don't.

[Russ84]

The thought "same" will sound like the spoken word. Also, there will be an accompanying sensation in the body together with another thought that claims that the sensation validates or invalidates the first thought

Thank you I understand now, I do notice the first thought but have been trying to notice the sensation, will stick with that another day and report back.

[Russ84]

Also, there will be an accompanying sensation in the body together with another thought that claims that the sensation validates or invalidates the first thought

Still having trouble noticing this. I've been noticing some sensations just not any thought that follows as yet. It happens very quick. Will continue to look.

[Russ84]

Have been noticing the "same" thought occuring more often, it happens frequently throughout the day. Still having trouble seeing the sensation and follow up thought but will keep looking.

[Russ84]

Still not seeing the sensation and thought that follows but didnt get as much time yesterday to look.

[AwayKen127]

Do you feel stuck in a rut, Jerry, or is this line of inquiry productive? We could look at other things if you like.
Jeff

[Russ84]

Thanks Jeff, I feel a little stuck but I'll give it another day and see how I go!

[Russ84]

Can we move onto looking at other things, thanks Jeff!

[AwayKen127]

Hi Jerry,
I haven't forgotten about you--I'm just seeing if any inspiration comes for a new inquiry direction. I'll have something for you soon.
Jeff

[Russ84]

No worries Jeff I'll continue to look at the same thought throughout the day and during meditation keep focus on the breath and at the thought of being in control.

[AwayKen127]

Hi Jerry,
Here's an exercise. Let's look at your answers and go from there.

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t.  Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the colour red ‘experienced’, or is the colour green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or  do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?