Back for guidance

[Russ84]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

That there is no I in control, there are thoughts but no I who has thoughts. Everything is happening without anyone anywhere.

What are you looking for at LU?

To know the truth and drop the illusion/belief in an I

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

Hoping someone can help me to tackle the difficult areas that I'm avoiding, the buttons I have that cause me to retreat into distractions when pressed. I know I need to do the work, no one else can do it.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

Around three years ago after reading Gateless Gatecrashes there was a great arising of fear that was acknowledged and accepted. Since then life has been a lot lighter and easier, feelings and thoughts don't repeat as much as they once did because they are not believed as strongly. The looking when shame, or the feeling of having done something wrong, arises is still very difficult to do. Last attempt two years ago with a guide there were feelings that arose followed by a retreat from exploring or looking.

I meditate an hour each morning and continue to look throughout the day. Sometimes it all seems simple, that there is nothing to read or required in order to see through the beliefs just to be present and honest. At other times it becomes too hard, games are played to distract from looking for awhile. I would like to try again and be more honest and upfront about these feelings to my next guide, determined to be present and look rather than avoidance with distractions. I know this needs to happen otherwise the beliefs will remain and the illusion will persist.


On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[AwayKen127]

Hi Russ84,
I'm Jeff. What may I call you? I can guide you if you like. Are you able to respond daily?

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff I'm Jerry. Yes I am able to respond daily and would like you to guide me.

[AwayKen127]

Hi Jerry,

I'm on the Pacific coast of Canada so you're about 16 hours ahead of me.

I reviewed your thread on LU from two years ago which apparently you abandoned suddenly. I gather that you were avoiding feelings of shame or of having done something wrong that came up in the inquiry. Can you tell me more about that?

Jeff

[Russ84]

I reviewed your thread on LU from two years ago which apparently you abandoned suddenly. I gather that you were avoiding feelings of shame or of having done something wrong that came up in the inquiry. Can you tell me more about that?

Yes there was feelings/thoughts of shame when pointing out I was avoiding certain direct questions, thoughts followed of "I'm not doing that". Such thoughts have been a common pattern in my life and over the last 10 years ago I've become better at challenging them and asking are they really true, it's helped me to drop beliefs I once held so strongly and always opposed being challenged. So I looked over my posts and confirmed that I was avoiding questions which then created thoughts of doing something wrong. I suspect I became overwhelmed which then contributed to having difficulty identifying thoughts clearly, which was mentioned in the last post with that guide.

This is still what I have great difficulty with today, they are hard to be comfortable and okay with, to accept they are just thoughts and are not problems they need ruminating on. When they arise my strategy is to direct awareness to the sensations in the body, to notice as much detail about them as I can and/or to look for the I that is being hurt/shamed which can't be found.

[AwayKen127]

Thanks for that explanation, Jerry. Please describe your meditation practice in detail.

How do events happen in the world? Do you see what you describe clearly, or is it second-hand knowledge?
Jeff

[Russ84]

Please describe your meditation practice in detail.

My meditation practice tends to fall into one of the below, I pick one during the start of my sit and tend to stick to that for one hour.

Keeping my awareness on the breath noticing as much sensations of the nostrils as possible. I tend to do this one when there are many thoughts going on and it's hard to stay focused on any one of them.

Awareness on hearing and sound. I usually start with the question is there a gap between hearing and perceiving a sound. When I notice there isn't any gap the sounds are then heard as if they don't have any position, they are everywhere and nowhere. This becomes relaxing and quite enjoyable.

Lately I've started trying to identify the I in any thoughts that arise, I never find the I and this can also become relaxing at times and brings feelings of being more open like I'm lacking any centre.

How do events happen in the world? Do you see what you describe clearly, or is it second-hand knowledge?

The events I described above? They aren't clear at all and as time goes on thoughts about them become quiet hazy/distant and more like a story about a character than an event that happened to me.

In the moment when these events first arise there's intense body sensations and repetitive thoughts that seem to be very important and true, but after a couple hours both the feelings and thoughts stop repeating.

There was an event on Saturday where I received a criticism and it was deliver with kindness and hesitation, and was completely valid and understandable. The usual body sensations and thoughts replaying the event repeated for around 2 hours, repeating less and less over that time. There were reassuring thoughts that followed each time of how the message was deliver with kindness, reminders of looking for the I that is feeling this hurt. At the time all of this felt like it was under my control, that there was a choice I made to look for an I that I knew wouldn't be found.

I've recently started driving and at first it seemed to be under my control, requiring my attention and careful control. A couple months in and I'm noticing how it doesn't feel like I'm driving as much, that so many choices of how to steer or brake are not something I'm deciding on and actively doing.

[AwayKen127]

Hi Jerry,
I'm glad to hear you have a daily meditation practice. I'd like you to try this:
Sit or recline comfortably, holding an object in your two hands. (I like a coffee mug, but it could be anything.) Close your eyes. Tune in to the sound that is always present which is generated in the cochlea. It's called the "nada" and it sounds like a high pitch steady pure tone to me. When that is clear, shift attention to your hands and hold attention there. Notice the quality of the sensation in your hands. See if it changes over the course of many minutes. After a time, keeping your eyes closed and without moving your hands, can you distinguish the held object from your hands? Can you find the boundaries or shape of your hands from the sensation alone? Does the sensation by itself contain any information about "hands" or "held object"? Is there a visual overlay of "hands" in imagination? Let me know how it goes and what you find.
Jeff

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff,

This was enjoyable. Yes the quality of sensations change over time. First the held object became difficult to distinguish until it could no longer be identified. I noticed visual overlays of my hands but as time went on imagination lost track of where the hands were and what shape they were in. It was just random sensations mostly of tingling and pressure, there was no information contained in sensations of either hands or object. There was still some vague sense of the sensations having a location, below my head and in front of me, perhaps that was still imagination?

[AwayKen127]

Good looking, Jerry.

There was still some vague sense of the sensations having a location, below my head and in front of me, perhaps that was still imagination?

I suggest you continue with this practice and see how the "location" is constructed by thought. Let me know what you find.

Jeff

[Russ84]

I suggest you continue with this practice and see how the "location" is constructed by thought. Let me know what you find.

Will do, I'll try to set aside time tonight and will also dedicate another morning sit.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff,

With this morning's sit there was a brief moment of noticing no location of the sensations. I have more free time tonight so I will sit with this for another day and give it my full attention.

[AwayKen127]

Great, Jerry. Looking forward to hearing about it.
Jeff

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff,

I was able to sit an hour last night and this morning. When attention was focused on the sensations there was no location noticed just sensations. This lasted longer than before but still brief, when a distraction such as a verbal thought happened the belief of locations returned until keeping attention back on the sensations for awhile. Happy to continue with this.

[AwayKen127]

Hi Jerry,
I think it would be a good thing to continue this practice. It's basically shikantaza (natural meditation).

Let's try this:
Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple.  If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.
 
When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure, prior to thought? Colour is known and the substance of thoughts is known. 
 
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? The contents of a thought are what the thought refers to or means--its "aboutness". This is in contrast to the substance of a thought, which is the reflection of sensation that is the actual experience of the thought, such as visual images or sounds that come from memory or imagination.

Actual experience is sound, the substance of thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation. It is not the contents of thought.
 
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
 
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.
 
This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure prior to any thought, and, is always here.
 
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?