Are you there, Susan P?

[Shannonjheart]

Susan,
Who can not locate an I? Good question. Who is I? Looking.
After sitting a good while, I can't say I find I.
I could not find the experiencer.
A mental agreement comes up for me that there is no I. No fear, no concern, there's a sense that it's the truth, I'd never argue it with someone if they told me I'm not a person. There's also a strong desire to Know this directly for myself. I want to know this. As for your last question, I don't know what life would look like. There's a feeling that I don't want to guess or imagine, I want to Know. I keep looking into my direct experience and that's the only place I'll know it.
The looking continues,
Shannon

[besupax]

Hi Shannon,

there is an intellectual agreement to "no me" on your side. Okay. All we need to do is having you look into DE to turn it into a realization. Here we go:

How is "you" getting up in the morning?

How is "you" making breakfast/lunch/dinner?

How is "you" driving the car to school/work?

How is "you" having a conversation during the day?

How is "you" choosing what clothes to wear in the morning?

Look at each one closely. Check it! Please report from DE.

Looking forward to your observations.

Warmly,
Susan

[Shannonjheart]

Hi Susan,
Who can not locate an I? I'm looking for half hour here, can't answer.
Can I find an I that experiences experience? Again sitting long time, can you give me a clue what I'm looking for?
What comes up when I read " there is no me"? I believe it and I want to experience it! Who wants to experience it you will ask? I don't know. Bit frustrating.
How does life look without an I? Things just happen, things are heard seen, smelled, felt,thought is noticed etc and that's it. I don't see anything else to the life. because it's the I thats the one who'd add any meaning, significance or causation to any of it.
Sorry I've been a bad student handing my homework in late!
Shannon

[besupax]

Dear Shannon,

Things just happen, things are heard seen, smelled, felt,thought is noticed etc and that's it

Exactly. That is the direct experience. There is hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching, noticing of emotions and thoughts.

I don't see anything else to the life. because it's the I thats the one who'd add any meaning, significance or causation to any of it.

Could you please explain in detail how "I" is adding meaning, significance and causation to life?

Also, you might have overlooked these exercises:

How is "you" getting up in the morning?

How is "you" making breakfast/lunch/dinner?

How is "you" driving the car to school/work?

How is "you" having a conversation during the day?

How is "you" choosing what clothes to wear in the morning?

Please choose at least one of these exercises and describe in detail how "you" is making things happen. The toolset to use is DE (direct experience).

Looking forward to your observations.

You are doing great!

Warmly,

Susan

[Shannonjheart]

Hi Susan, I may have discovered the problem so we may not have any more disruptions. Hopefully! So I see both your posts for the first time, I'll address your latest one now.
"How" is I adding meaning etc to life?
With nothing other than a thought. In detail... Actually, I can't be sure I is adding the thought or meaning or significance to an event. Those thoughts are just coming to the I by themselves.
To describe how a "me" is making something happen?
I'm stumped. I will do this exercise in my daily routine today and tomorrow and try to see into the answer.
I enjoy this exercise, I'll keep looking.
Cheers,
Shannon

[besupax]

Hi Shannon,

"How" is I adding meaning etc to life?
With nothing other than a thought. In detail... Actually, I can't be sure I is adding the thought or meaning or significance to an event.

Good noticing here!

Those thoughts are just coming to the I by themselves.

Is `I` the thinker of those thoughts? How is `I` perceiving those thoughts?

To describe how a "me" is making something happen?
I'm stumped. I will do this exercise in my daily routine today and tomorrow and try to see into the answer.
I enjoy this exercise, I'll keep looking.

I am looking forward to your observations.

Warmly,
Susan

[Shannonjheart]

Hi Susan,
Is the I the thinker of thoughts?
No.
How is the I perceiving those thoughts?
The I isn't perceiving them something else is. I can't tell what is perceiving.
Observations how a me is making life happen....
There have been lucid moments these last days where I can see the automatic ness of the life around me and within me. Some times I watch this with a quiet calm and other times I'm experiencing a feeling like being lost in space. Without orientation. There's no panic about it, but a deep sense I don't know what's going on even if there's a story in my mind of why such and such is happening. The mind has been trying hard these past 2 days to make up a story to really explain why things happen as they do. Since yesterday I noticed I was caught in the story and today I feel released somewhat from the web.
Even the release from the web appears as a story, so my technique is to return to what is here in my direct experience now. At the moment, there is sadness as emotional energy, busy mind, pain in left side neck, worry and concern,so many bird sounds...20 mins later....
How is a me making anything happen. How is a me making something happen. I don't know. I am intrigued by the question, or the looking into who is making things happen. But no clarity comes yet. I shall continue to give space to this in my busy day.
And I look forward to your next set of lookings,
Shannon

[besupax]

Hi Shannon,

Is the I the thinker of thoughts?
No.
How is the I perceiving those thoughts?
The I isn't perceiving them something else is. I can't tell what is perceiving.

Who is `I` that can`t tell what is perceiving? I invite you to look very closely now: is there a perceiver/thinker or is perceiving/thinking just happening?

Observations how a me is making life happen....
There have been lucid moments these last days where I can see the automatic ness of the life around me and within me. Some times I watch this with a quiet calm and other times I'm experiencing a feeling like being lost in space. Without orientation. There's no panic about it, but a deep sense I don't know what's going on even if there's a story in my mind of why such and such is happening. The mind has been trying hard these past 2 days to make up a story to really explain why things happen as they do. Since yesterday I noticed I was caught in the story and today I feel released somewhat from the web.

Processing is good and helpful. When you read it again you`ll notice though that it is mind labelling / story telling. `I` is trying to keep in control. It will most likely come up with the nicest stories how and why life is.
Now is the time to look for yourself. Are these stories actually true?


It must be possible to find `I` if it`s in charge of everything (guiding you to think certain thoughts, providing you with life lessons, having intuitive/life/intellectual skills, giving you meaning and purpose in life, etc.). Don`t you think? If it can`t be found - what would be the conclusion here for Shannon?

At the moment, there is sadness as emotional energy, busy mind, pain in left side neck, worry and concern,so many bird sounds.

This is your tool set for this inquiry! Whenever you get caught up in stories or mind processing notice in DE what is actually happening in the present moment. Then look for the `I`. Is it in charge? Is there `I` feeling sadness or is sadness just happening? Is there `I` feeling pain in the left side neck? Or is pain just happening?

besupax wrote:
How is "you" getting up in the morning?

How is "you" making breakfast/lunch/dinner?

How is "you" driving the car to school/work?

How is "you" having a conversation during the day?

How is "you" choosing what clothes to wear in the morning?

It might actually be really helpful to choose one from the list and sit down and write out in detail what is happening.


Looking forward to your observations.

Warmly,
Susan

[Shannonjheart]

Hi Susan, it's a bit late, just got home from the beach.
Is there a perceiver/thinker, or is there just perceiving/thinking happening?
I see a similarity of the "outside " events as they occur on their own, eg.the tree sways, the ocean laps, and the "inside" events eg. impulses that give rise to my doings, raise my arm, think a thought, notice something and listen in. All these happen on the own in the same way.
Are these stories true?
Last night I wrote down what was going through the mind as a story. I didn't censor. Then after a while I dropped the storytelling. It was seen that it's not entirely true and interest in it dropped. When I drop into what's actually occurring, the story is not true. Going upstairs to the mind, it seems true. I can't say it's true because it's not occurring right now.
Is there an I in charge in relation to what is experienced or noticed?
No! It just thinks it is! Frustration because I can't see out of this circle! I'd like to move beyond or through this looping.
How is 'me' choosing to write this now? Duh. Can't answer. Just blank. Sorry. I'm not feeling very good at this. Maybe I'm not ready?

Shannon

[besupax]

Hi Shannon,

How is 'me' choosing to write this now? Duh. Can't answer. Just blank. Sorry. I'm not feeling very good at this. Maybe I'm not ready?

No worries! This is a paradox. How do you find `no I`? How do you find something non existing?
Just keep looking. Frustration is to be expected in this process as `I` is trying to keep in charge.
You can not not be ready. Everything is out in the open. It is just new to look at it directly.

Is there a perceiver/thinker, or is there just perceiving/thinking happening?
I see a similarity of the "outside " events as they occur on their own, eg.the tree sways, the ocean laps, and the "inside" events eg. impulses that give rise to my doings, raise my arm, think a thought, notice something and listen in. All these happen on the own in the same way.

Who/where is `I` seeing a similarity?

How does this sound to you? "There is a similarity of the "outside" events as they occur on their own, e.g. the tree sways, the ocean laps, and the "inside" events e.g., impulses that give rise to doings, raise a arm, think a thought, notice something and listen in. All these happen on the own in the same way."

Is there an inside and outside? Is there a separate self at all?


Here is another exercise: Let's say you have two favourite bottles of wine and either would be perfect for whatever occasion. How is the decision made between the two of them? Can you pinpoint the moment where a choice is made? Can you find " I" making a choice?

Warmly,
Susan

[Shannonjheart]

Thanks for bearing with me Susan. Discouragement came to visit, as we've been at this for some time and there's not a sense of progress, feeling a little stuck at one spot. But if you don't mind me taking so long and are willing to go on, I'll do my best. (Who will do their best?! Argh! This is what feels stuck!)

Where is this I that is seeing a similarity?
It's only a sense of an I, but not a tangible thing. A reference point only.

Is there an inside and an outside?
Certainly appears to be. Have to say yes.

Is there a separate self at all?
Yikes. Don't know what to say. Sorry for the feeble answer.

How is a decision made, can I pinpoint the moment?
It's clear that it's made before there's awareness of it. Been clear for a while. I don't know what makes a decision or the moment it's made, only that it's earlier than what I've been calling me.

Something you said last time really hit home. "Even nice stories are still stories." Even the story of this process and spirituality. Those words stayed with me all today.
Shannon

[besupax]

Hi Shannon,

Something you said last time really hit home. "Even nice stories are still stories." Even the story of this process and spirituality. Those words stayed with me all today.

The truth can`t be just available to the best/worst/mightiest/scariest... story tellers. The truth has to be accessible by everyone. The truth is very simple and always in plain sight. It is shared by everyone, whether they perceive it or not.

Discouragement came to visit, as we've been at this for some time and there's not a sense of progress, feeling a little stuck at one spot. But if you don't mind me taking so long and are willing to go on, I'll do my best.

Where is this inquiry in your top 5 life priorities now? Is some resistance coming up? Please answer and describe fully.

I am willing to go on and guide you in this process - as long as you are seriously looking. However, you seem to be avoiding answering my questions in detail. Please do not assume that I know what you are perceiving. I need you to answer in detail! Okay?

It's only a sense of an I, but not a tangible thing. A reference point only.

How is this perceived in DE?

Is there an inside and an outside?
Certainly appears to be. Have to say yes.

I`ll give you more exercises on this if you are willing to look deeper.

Is there a separate self at all?
Yikes. Don't know what to say. Sorry for the feeble answer.

Direct experience is your toolset. Could you please look again?

How is a decision made, can I pinpoint the moment?
It's clear that it's made before there's awareness of it. Been clear for a while. I don't know what makes a decision or the moment it's made, only that it's earlier than what I've been calling me.

Are you saying that the decision is made before it`s labeled "my decision"?
If the decision is not made by you, is there a decision maker at all?

besupax wrote:
besupax wrote:
How is "you" getting up in the morning?

How is "you" making breakfast/lunch/dinner?

How is "you" driving the car to school/work?

How is "you" having a conversation during the day?

How is "you" choosing what clothes to wear in the morning?


Please choose at least one from the list and write out in detail what is happening.

I am looking forward to your observations.

Warmly,
Susan