Hi - brief awakening yesterday

[bejahu]

Hi :-) ,

I had a brief awakening yesterday and I'd like some help to make it permanent. Thank you.

A month or so ago, I came out of a bout of severe depression (which I have been experiencing on and off most of my life). I have been getting a lot of guidance (my guardian angel, etc) on my spiritual path since then and have found the Release Technique immensely useful in getting rid of junk and allowing emotions to flow. Time feels very long, but in a good way (it's been a long month, but nicely so - mostly). It's been maybe a week since I really felt I'm moving towards spiritual awakening (it helped when I found out it's a normal thing and not reserved for incredibly powerful beings that religions are founded around - although I recognise, intellectually, that there's no such thing as an incredibly powerful separate being...)

Anyway, yesterday I was feeling really tired and my husband asked if I was all right. I said 'yes, I just think I'm getting anxious about going to London'. I lay down on the sofa and asked myself 'Who am I?' and I realised I was in a different space inside. There was an 'i' and an 'I'. The 'i' was at a distance and I didn't really care about its feelings, I asked the 'I' if I am / it is anxious about going to London (or about anything) and being anxious just didn't make any sense at all. It didn't last very long, but it was very peaceful.

Now, whenever I try to recapture that feeling, my mind just starts writing novels about the experience...

I would be so grateful for any help. Thank you. :-)

Beverley.

[bejahu]

I have been reading some other threads, so: My expectations: I expect to not be so buffeted by emotions - I particularly expect to be able to get clearly out of the cycle of depressive episodes; I am a little concerned that my family will find me hard to relate to and feel, to a certain extent, like they've lost their wife or mother.

[bejahu]

Sorry this is turning into a bit of a saga...

I have read some more of the book and I think that maybe I have cracked it after all. There doesn't seem to be a strong sense of me, as in Beverley, any more. I relaxed into the feeling a bit and began to feel really quite peaceful. Nothing has really changed, that's the biggest surprise (assuming I'm right). I think that relaxing into it further, and getting used to it, will allow me to feel that something has really changed. [Sorry for all the 'I's and 'me's!]

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley and welcome to LU.

Sorry for the wait. I can see you've been looking for yourself, well done!

I have read some more of the book and I think that maybe I have cracked it after all. There doesn't seem to be a strong sense of me, as in Beverley, any more. I relaxed into the feeling a bit and began to feel really quite peaceful. Nothing has really changed, that's the biggest surprise (assuming I'm right). I think that relaxing into it further, and getting used to it, will allow me to feel that something has really changed. [Sorry for all the 'I's and 'me's!]

No problem with the "I's" and "me's" they are very useful for communication purposes.
You said that "There doesn't seem to be a strong sense of me, as in Beverley, any more." If something happens and the sense of me comes back, will that make you belief that the separate self is real - are you expecting the sense of self to disappear forever and ever?

I had a brief awakening yesterday and I'd like some help to make it permanent.

How do you expect the you to become permanently awake if there is no you in reality? How would that look like?

Now, whenever I try to recapture that feeling, my mind just starts writing novels about the experience...

Oh, yes, novels and novels :) Do you think seeing without a doubt that the "I" doesn't exist will stop thoughts about the I and it's story? What are you expecting to become different?

Looking forward to read your answers,
Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra,

Thank you for replying. :-D

Weirdly, while the sense of being Beverley hasn't (yet...) come back, earlier this morning I had a strong sense of being bejahu, which was a bit odd since there is no story attached to bejahu - apart from it being a username I use online. I suppose it was funny really. Anyway, that seems to have moved on now. I found that I was experimenting with what I am and almost everything I tried to be / find myself in(?) just floated away like it was on a piece of elastic, eg 'I am angry' 'I am happy', etc. The only thing that didn't float away is 'I am peaceful' - and 'I am 45', but that's never been a big issue for me and it's undeniable that this body is 45 (something inside me is smiling at the prospect of being 45 as I type this... hmmm... lol).

There is definitely awareness here, it just isn't 'Beverley' any more. (It crossed my mind that maybe I won't recognise my name if someone calls me or something, but that seems unlikely and isn't a great cause of concern.) Then I go through phases where there's junk and stuff and I start to feel kind of scratchy inside, but that moves on reasonably easily too (thus far - fingers crossed! :-) ).

Awakening with there being no me... I suppose it would be like I feel now: the sun is rising and the sky is pink, I can hear the birds, I know my husband is getting his shoes on downstairs in order to go to work... There is space, in me and in my room. Awakening of 'me' means that 'me' drifts away like it's on a piece of loose elastic.

I am *full* of thoughts about me and my story (my daughter and I are going away to London for tomorrow and Thursday - I probably won't be able to get online until Friday so I won't be able to check in here, I'm afraid); I don't go away very often so I tend to plan obsessively (especially about what to take) when I do, but there seems to be a bit more space around that. I think my aim will be to just allow myself to plan excessively, to give myself space to do that.

Answering your questions is really helping me move deeper into the feeling! When I realised yesterday that I'd probably cracked it, it was such an anticlimax after all the (kind of) forcing myself to relax and do the internal inquiry! LOL

Thanks again!

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Dear Beverley,

When you look to your experience, can you find something that keeps you stuck in the belief of the existence of a separate self? Take your time looking and tell me if you have any doubts or sticky points that make the self seem real.

Meanwhile let's look to some of the things you wrote:

I don't go away very often so I tend to plan obsessively (especially about what to take) when I do

When this kind of experience happens, can you see a you planning obsessively or what is happening is just the experience of thinking that is labeled as "plan obsessively"?

When I realised yesterday that I'd probably cracked it, it was such an anticlimax after all the (kind of) forcing myself to relax and do the internal inquiry!

Is a you forcing itself to do anything or is this just a thought about what is going on?
Are you the chooser and controller of what is going on in life? Give me some examples of why your answer is a yes or no, please.

Post when you can, looking forward to read your answers!

Love,
Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra :-) ,

One thing that could keep me stuck (I will definitely keep looking out for these, by the way!) is being frightened this will disappear and I'll get ill (depressed) again. So many times I've been well, sometimes really, really well, and then I get ill again and it doesn't really make any sense. I really don't feel I can do that again (force myself to live through another episode of depression - sorry if this is heavy).

When I think of planning obsessively, it's kind of like something my body and mind need to do. I feel quite relaxed about letting them do it at the moment. I suppose it's the thinking, the 'must remember that' thoughts that keep cropping up. There is a bit of churning (excitement) in my stomach, it's a physical thing that's trying to draw me in - once I recognised it was trying to draw me in, it stopped drawing me in so much... I suppose the 'must remember that' thoughts are also trying to draw me in. Part of me knows that we will cope perfectly well if I forget something; another part of me knows that it's really helpful to pack well. So packing obsessively is something else that could keep me stuck. (I have a tendency to do this with my handbag as well, it's like a comfort/safety/security thing. Can I be safe without my handbag, and what part of me feels anxious without it... When I look at this thought/feeling, it starts to evaporate.)

Is a you forcing itself to do anything or is this just a thought about what is going on?

There was a lot of effort and determination going on yesterday. Part of me was forcing myself to keep at it, trying to regain the clarity I got the day before & trying to understand how this fitted in with the comparison about seeing Santa's a lie, but objecting to how *normal* everything felt. AHA! Part of me wanted to just suddenly have a foot on the bottom rung of the Buddha ladder, instead of just not identifying with being Beverley any more. I am happy to be where I am today... so now that same part of me that wanted to be well on the way to being Buddha yesterday is now building a little house in the concept of being happy with things as they are... That's OK, I see it.

Are you the chooser and controller of what is going on in life?

I'm not sure about this: I choose which route I walk the dog on, but I don't choose what other dogs we meet when we're walking. I don't control my husband / anyone else, but I decide eg what I'm going to eat for lunch. I have no control over my digestion and, if my body thinks I've eaten food that's gone off, it gets rid of it *quickly* and I have no control over that. I have some control over whether or not I do things that are peaceful and calming. I have no control over whether people I meet are going to be peaceful and calm, but I have some control over whether I buy into their mood.

Thank you, :-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

One thing that could keep me stuck (I will definitely keep looking out for these, by the way!) is being frightened this will disappear and I'll get ill (depressed) again. So many times I've been well, sometimes really, really well, and then I get ill again and it doesn't really make any sense. I really don't feel I can do that again (force myself to live through another episode of depression - sorry if this is heavy).

Thank you for your honesty.
Are you saying that you are afraid that seeing there is no self will disappear when "heavier" things happen in life, things like depression? Let's look at this if you don't mind.

Can you please describe, from what you remember, the experience of being depressed? Not the content of thoughts, not the stories - the experience itself?
If you look back to the depression from a place of curiosity, like if you never had seen that happen before, what do you see happening?

Take your time doing this and be very gentle with yourself. And if you have doubts about what I'm asking please tell me.

Sending love,
Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra :-) ,

I headed back here to say that I'm no longer sure that it's me (Beverley) who chooses what I have for lunch and I'm sure it's *not* Beverley who LOVES my garden.

Yes, I am concerned that if / when I start heading into depression again, I will lose seeing that there's no self.

The depression is like something that lands on me and crushes all the life and joy out of me. A very heavy energy. (I've recently observed how it affects my family too - they are so much happier and ***freer*** when I'm well.) I suppose maybe it's a kind of controlling energy that just gets bigger and bigger and bigger until there's nothing else. A huge desire to control that doesn't achieve anything. I don't really know what it's trying to control - Beverley, I suppose. All the 'bad' things I perceive in myself. Thoughts, bad-feeling thoughts. I get some and want to escape so try to control, then that just makes it worse and it gets into a spiral until I can't bear the weight of it any more and the only way out I can see is to kill myself, and then the thoughts obsess about that. Very stagnant. I think that must be the basis of it.

Thank you, Sandra, you are being SO HELPFUL. :-) I am not afraid of looking at ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

I am not afraid of looking at ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!

Happy to know that you don't feel bad by looking at "depression". My only goal here is to make you look to what's real in experience and I don't want to trigger anything that can set off the experience of depression itself. Let me know if anything like that starts to happen please.

The depression is like something that lands on me and crushes all the life and joy out of me. A very heavy energy. (I've recently observed how it affects my family too - they are so much happier and ***freer*** when I'm well.) I suppose maybe it's a kind of controlling energy that just gets bigger and bigger and bigger until there's nothing else. A huge desire to control that doesn't achieve anything. I don't really know what it's trying to control - Beverley, I suppose. All the 'bad' things I perceive in myself. Thoughts, bad-feeling thoughts. I get some and want to escape so try to control, then that just makes it worse and it gets into a spiral until I can't bear the weight of it any more and the only way out I can see is to kill myself, and then the thoughts obsess about that. Very stagnant. I think that must be the basis of it.

Can we say that the experience of being depressed is made of thoughts and sensations? If you look for it, can you find the owner of these thoughts and sensations? What makes them yours?

Love,
Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra,

Let me know if anything like that starts to happen please.

Thank you :-) , I will.

Can we say that the experience of being depressed is made of thoughts and sensations? If you look for it, can you find the owner of these thoughts and sensations? What makes them yours?

I think they are tied to me by shame. I can see they aren't really *mine*, though. At the moment, they feel like they belong on a different planet, or a TV programme or something - something I watch that could make me feel bad, but afterwards I shake it off. They are in the same general space in my awareness as 'Beverley' is. I am a bit wary of them, but if I say to myself 'I'm depressed' 'I'm anxious' 'I'm a bad person' the thoughts just drift away from me again like they're on loose elastic (more slowly than when I was experimenting with this earlier because I am feeling a bit more sombre, but they still aren't part of me).

"I am feeling a bit more sombre" - suddenly realised that I'm not feeling sombre at all and that is an energy that's just dissipated...! lol So... do I own 'shame' that can tie depression to me? No, I don't.

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

In this process when someone feels fear or other strong emotions (and that happens a lot!), we ask the person to look to what is behind the sensations, behind the thoughts and see if a self can be found, as the origin of what is happening.

Can you also do that, please?
Look and tell me what is behind thinking. Can you see a thinker if you look at thoughts - any kind of thoughts, "good" or "bad"? Are thoughts thinking thoughts? What can you find doing thoughts?

Do the same with sensations. Can you find a feeler, an entity that causes sensations or choses which sensations to feel? What can you find causing sensations?

I think they are tied to me by shame.

Can shame tie something to you or is this a thought about what is happening?

Love,
Sandra

[bejahu]

Thank you again, Sandra. I have written this down and am going to take it to London with me.

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Have fun and take care, Beverley.

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra,

We had a great time and I felt so much more relaxed, on the whole, than I would have ever expected to. :-)

Look and tell me what is behind thinking. Can you see a thinker if you look at thoughts - any kind of thoughts, "good" or "bad"? Are thoughts thinking thoughts? What can you find doing thoughts?

I feel that thoughts are like flies buzzing round a room in summer, they go round and round, sometimes they go fast, sometimes they go more slowly, sometimes they spin and zip around each other... Sometimes thoughts are in my head, sometimes they aren't. They just seem to exist, I don't know where they come from or how they get where they are - if they annoy you, they can REALLY annoy you, if you are relaxed about them and just let them get on with it, they aren't really a problem.

Can you find a feeler, an entity that causes sensations or choses which sensations to feel? What can you find causing sensations?

This was more difficult, I'm still working on this one. My body definitely feels emotions and tiredness, but the less I identify with the emotions, and if I try to spot the thoughts in the emotions, the less they drag on... I don't know, I'm not really feeling any emotions at the moment - I will keep looking at this one.

bejahu wrote:
I think they are tied to me by shame.

Can shame tie something to you or is this a thought about what is happening?

This was definitely a thought about what was happening.

:-)

Beverley.