Ready to End the Questions

[Paulo]

Reaction to the thoughts.

No. They're like any other thoughts or emotions, they're just there.

Perfect, you can see that there is no separate entity behind that fear, it's just a reaction to thoughts. When the thoughts change the emotion associated with them does too. If you stay 'in' the fear thoughts, the fear will stay too.

I know them as memories, but they're just being projected into the future, with the assumption the future will be the same.

Look at this a little closer - Is there a future anywhere at all in direct experience?

Kind of. I reached the bottom, but the scene was broken and intermittent (it didn't have a smooth continuation).

Have another go at that exercise until you can reach the bottom with smooth confidence. I'm also including an alternative exercise here for you to play with -

Step 1: Stand in a room where you have some quiet and some space
Step 2: Close your eyes and imagine as vividly as you can that you are standing on a beautiful warm sandy beach. See the clear blue sky overhead, hear the waves gently breaking on the shore. Look down and see your feet there in the sand, wiggle your toes and feel the soft sand move. (Again, engage as many of the senses as possible)
Step 3: In your imagination walk to the edge of the water. See the waves coming gently up and onto the sand and then receding.
Step 4: In your imagination walk into the water. Keep walking until the water gets up to your waist, feel the coolness of the water on your body. Keep walking once again into deeper and deeper waters. Continue walking until you are completely covered in water and carry on deeper and deeper still, walking on the ocean floor.

Observe how the body reacts, observe how the imaginary character acts when the water is getting deeper. Did you manage to get submerged and stay submerged?

Try that exercise again until you can successfully remain submerged.

Once more, the laws of physics don't apply to the imagination - why do you think it can be so difficult to walk into the water completely?

Not here to speculate on other peoples' minds.

Good call.

What are 'others' in direct experience?

Paulo.

[EricW]

I know them as memories, but they're just being projected into the future, with the assumption the future will be the same.

Look at this a little closer - Is there a future anywhere at all in direct experience?

Of course not. There's only the projection of it.

Kind of. I reached the bottom, but the scene was broken and intermittent (it didn't have a smooth continuation).

Have another go at that exercise until you can reach the bottom with smooth confidence.

Pretty difficult to do, but not because of fear, more from having to create all those details in the mind...like graphics lag from a slow GPU. The alternative exercise was easier...

Observe how the body reacts, observe how the imaginary character acts when the water is getting deeper. Did you manage to get submerged and stay submerged?

There was a quick thought of "crossing the threshold" while finally going all the way under, and the natural anxiety of that thought, but then the thought, "Wake up" came up quickly, and there was the memory that this was just an exercise, so the mind went ahead and created a steep drop-off to jump down into. That was fun.

Once more, the laws of physics don't apply to the imagination - why do you think it can be so difficult to walk into the water completely?

It really wasn't. xD

What are 'others' in direct experience?

Bodies and voices. Essentially, there are no "others," at least in the sense of minds and whatnot.

[Paulo]

Thanks EricW,

There was a quick thought of "crossing the threshold" while finally going all the way under, and the natural anxiety of that thought, but then the thought, "Wake up" came up quickly, and there was the memory that this was just an exercise, so the mind went ahead and created a steep drop-off to jump down into. That was fun.

Nicely handled! The function of that exercise was to demonstrate how thoughts can be mistaken for reality, and how the mind may (or may not) react to protect that imaginary character called 'I'. It demonstrates, how a whole story can be built around an imaginary character, yet when that story is questioned or examined in finer detail, by simply looking at it, then, as you say so wonderfully - we 'Wake up'.

Here's another little exercise to try for yourself when you find that yourself 'in' thought -

As soon as you become aware that you are 'in' thought, mentally shout 'STOP' to halt the unfolding scene (For example, you may be having an argument in thought with a colleague). Then ask a simple question - Does this scenario relate to the here and now, is it real? Then look around - is that colleague even nearby, are the props of the imaginary scenario around you now?

If the scene does indeed relate to something in reality, you will be able to deal with it more effectively by stepping out of thought. If it doesn't have any basis in reality, then you can simply dismiss it as fantasy/illusion, rather than carrying on. This frees up energy to actually operate in reality more efficiently.

Some thoughts of course can be very 'sticky', and may be more difficult than others to step out of, but you seem to be fairly aware, so see how that technique goes for you, modify as desired, and share your findings here if you wish.

At this point I think it's worthwhile checking where you are in this process -

There is no separate entity called 'I', never was in reality.

Where do you stand on this statement currently? Really let it all it out, have a good old rant, do you agree, disagree? What has been you experience over the past few days? Have you got any doubts, anything you want to share?

Great work so far, keep it up, Paulo.

[EricW]

Here's another little exercise to try for yourself when you find that yourself 'in' thought -

As soon as you become aware that you are 'in' thought, mentally shout 'STOP' to halt the unfolding scene (For example, you may be having an argument in thought with a colleague). Then ask a simple question - Does this scenario relate to the here and now, is it real? Then look around - is that colleague even nearby, are the props of the imaginary scenario around you now?

If the scene does indeed relate to something in reality, you will be able to deal with it more effectively by stepping out of thought. If it doesn't have any basis in reality, then you can simply dismiss it as fantasy/illusion, rather than carrying on. This frees up energy to actually operate in reality more efficiently.

Some thoughts of course can be very 'sticky', and may be more difficult than others to step out of, but you seem to be fairly aware, so see how that technique goes for you, modify as desired, and share your findings here if you wish.

I could write a book on this exact "exercise." It is one I've been doing intensely for a while. Actually, "Wake up!" is the phrase I use (instead of "STOP") and it pulls me right out of sleep/being in thought. Often there is resistance (the mind seems to have its "favorite" thoughts, which include fears and the like).

It's not a perfect process, but it's a habit by now...where even if I'm thinking of nothing, "Wake up!" will just come in there in regular pulses.

At this point I think it's worthwhile checking where you are in this process -

There is no separate entity called 'I', never was in reality.

Where do you stand on this statement currently? Really let it all it out, have a good old rant, do you agree, disagree? What has been you experience over the past few days? Have you got any doubts, anything you want to share?

Well, to fully consider the statement, I'd have to find something that the word "I" refers to...

The word is used by the mind, but obviously doesn't refer to the mind itself (It's silly to say "I stubbed my toe" = "The mind stubbed its toe").

The word is usually used to refer to the "character" called Eric. But that's a made-up entity that refers to the interaction between body, thoughts, and emotions.

There's also no entity called a watcher. There is nothing present that is watching; watching is presence itself. To be present means to be watched (and there is nothing watching itself).

Overall, though, there's this nebulous idea of the "I" that seems so right to say things like, "So and so happened to me" or "I did so and so." It's that nebulous idea that bothers me. Even when I sit down and look at an object and ask, "Who is looking at that object?" there seems to be a vague notion that I am, even if I can't specifically find "me." It's like I'm a nothingness, filled with the world, behind my eyes, and that's what is viewing the object.

[Paulo]

Fantastic, it's that consistent work that will see you through this process, a lot of which you are doing already I see, Keep it up!

Often there is resistance (the mind seems to have its "favorite" thoughts, which include fears and the like).

My experience has been that there are some very seductive thoughts that are difficult to stop or see through, for me there're mostly emotional and seem to be seeking some kind of closure. Fear too is a good one, and I've found the 'jump' exercise helpful in practicing facing fear.

Something off topic, but I thought I'd share as it may be useful. Not sure if you're familiar with Carlos Castanedas books, where he chronicles a story of him meeting a sorcerer. One night they are out in the desert, being 'stalked' by a wind that is draining their energies. The sorcerer digs shallow pits and covers them in leaves, so that the wind 'won't recognise them'. When the wind returns, they lay perfectly still and it blows over them and around them, but does not attach.

If you read the tale of Jason and the Argonauts, there is a similar theme, when the face the sirens. Jason ties himself to the mast of their ship, and blocks his ear and eyes. The sirens come and his ship mates go mad and are killed. He survives by being very still, the sirens don't attach to him.

Next time a fearful thought tries to cast you overboard, stay still. And just like the wind, let it blow around you and through you, and on it's way.

Overall, though, there's this nebulous idea of the "I" that seems so right to say things like, "So and so happened to me" or "I did so and so." It's that nebulous idea that bothers me. Even when I sit down and look at an object and ask, "Who is looking at that object?" there seems to be a vague notion that I am, even if I can't specifically find "me." It's like I'm a nothingness, filled with the world, behind my eyes, and that's what is viewing the object.

Quick pointer - rather than ask 'who' looks at an object, ask 'what', as 'who' already presumes the existence of an 'I'. And you can rest assured the mind will create an 'I' like a magician pulls a rabbit from a hat, to fill that gap.

"So and so happened to me" or "I did so and so." It's that nebulous idea that bothers me

Let's look at that now in a little more detail.

What does the 'I' refer to there - an actual being separate from what's happening, or merely a perspective on the situation?

Ever play video games - Could you play a video game without a character/perspective there in the game? Is that character real, or just a vehicle for perspective?

Consider if the character in the video game is real, or part of the game itself. Can you relate this analogy to the experience of 'self' in what we call reality?

Paulo.

[EricW]

What does the 'I' refer to there - an actual being separate from what's happening, or merely a perspective on the situation?

A perspective of course.

Ever play video games - Could you play a video game without a character/perspective there in the game? Is that character real, or just a vehicle for perspective?

Well, many games are played from a 3rd person perspective. Some don't have characters (Tetris for example). But there always has to be some perspective for there to be a game. Characters and perspectives do not necessarily entail the other.

The character is of course not "real" (well, in the sense of being directly experienced, they are, but that they have consciousness and the like is a fiction). They're a vehicle, at best.

Consider if the character in the video game is real, or part of the game itself. Can you relate this analogy to the experience of 'self' in what we call reality?

Naturally. However, a video game character is viewed from outside the video game. I find no such thing here.

[Paulo]

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?

Take some time to consider - look in the here and now, look at direct experience. Sit with that question and let it settle. Really look at it before you respond, and if there are any lingering doubts feel free to share them.

With love, Paulo.

[EricW]

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?

So this may be an odd response, but it's the one I feel to give:

There still seems more to do. Yes, everything that I think of as "I" is just a character in a sort-of video game/movie in a 3-dimensional, immersive, first person perspective. The game that character is currently playing is "clarity," and it's a game it won't stop playing until clarity is the default experience of day-to-day life.

No, there is no separate self, and the character's concerns are not reality's concerns (reality has no concerns). Reality shines forth regardless of whether the character feels clarity or not.

Still, it seems the only game worth playing until it's over.

[Paulo]

Hi EricW,

the character's concerns are not reality's concerns (reality has no concerns).

Indeed, it's been my experience that reality doesn't give two hoots about our hopes, dreams, ambitions, or expectations. It IS what it IS, and all else is illusion.

There still seems more to do.

We can continue looking at a later date around the experience of clarity. What we do here now is just the first step - seeing that the self is not an entity separate from experience.

No, there is no separate self

It only remains for me to ask you a number of questions which I would like you to answer in your own time and your own way, maybe one per day, or all at once if you feel so inspired. Answer ONLY from your own experience, and from what's happening HERE and NOW. I will catch up with you once you have responded to all questions, and remember, there are no trick questions here, so just respond plainly and simply -

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of a separate self is, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it. 




5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you see?

6) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

7) Anything to add?

[EricW]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. No such entity exists or even can exist. It's like casting a net into the ocean and claiming the water inside the net is "separate" from the ocean itself.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of a separate self is, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The idea of a self is a nebulous linguistic construct designed to designate one body-mind unit from another. In that function it's useful ("my leg" vs. "your leg" just to refer to different physical parts).

The delusion comes in when the mind identifies with that designation - when it pretends to "own" the body-mind's processes.

Witnessing is a little more complex. The mind still wants to claim that there's an owner to the witnessing, and that's where the "separate self" part becomes useful. For there to be a witness witnessing the witnessed, there has to be a separation between them. But that's absurd, because if a separation were found, then the witness would also be witnessed, as it would be an entity with boundaries. The witnessed would be witnessing itself.

But such is just not the case. There is no separate witness to be found - no entity is doing it.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There doesn't seem to be a difference in feeling. It's just integrated and the thought/desire to keep going is still present. The questions surrounding self/this particular unit are just gone (not answered, because no proper question about this self/unit can be asked without already making the assumption that it exists as a real thing), but other questions about reality still remain.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

First I'd try to relieve them of identification with the body-mind. I'd ask them if their body was "them." If they thought it was, I'd ask them to imagine losing a limb. And so, upon losing a limb, do "you" change at all? Are you any more or less "you?" And I'd continue doing that through all the body parts, until there's just a mind floating through empty space. Still, are you any more or less "you?"

Now take away the mind. Now there's just consciousness of what's going on. Are you any more or less "you?"

Lastly, take away all the objects, now there's just empty silent consciousness of nothing - space itself. Are you any more or less "you?"

In that empty conscious space, who or what is conscious of that space? What entity there is witnessing this space? (Can't be, there's no entities in empty conscious space).

Or, they could just take 5-MeO-DMT if they have trouble imagining it, which does exactly this. >.>

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you see?

Letting go of the expectation that all questions would be answered. That and a fierce determination to see.

6) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Nope. The world is just playing with itself. I could say "I decided to get out of bed and get a bowl of cereal" but that's false. The mind had the thought "cereal?" and then the body responded in its own way with "yes!" So, the mind said, "the cereal is located in the kitchen," and then the body moved there and poured the cereal.

At no point was there an "I" that made that decision. The body got hungry on its own. The thought of cereal spontaneously entered the mind as a response, and the rest was just reactions/communication between the mind and body on the topic.

[Paulo]

Thanks EricW,

but other questions about reality still remain.

This is only natural, as your inquiry was so thorough. These we will look at a little later of you wish.


The next step is for me to share this thread with other guides to see if they have further questions for you. This part of the process may take a little while, but I will keep you updated as we progress.

Our 'aftercare' groups are run through Facebook, so if you have a Facebook account please send me a PM with the address. if you don't have a FaceBook account I would certainly recommend you sign up for one, even with a false name, in order to participate in these groups.

Paulo.

[EricW]

I don't know what your handle is on Facebook.

[Paulo]

Hi EricW, one of our guides has an additional question for you -

In your answers you talk about "mind" as something that identifies, claims, has thoughts, says things, communicates with body and is a container for thoughts. Is this your experience? What is mind?

Paulo.

[EricW]

Ah, well, there really is no mind, just individual thoughts that appear. When I say it communicates with body I mean that a thought appears and then the body reacts to that thought. When I say it claims something I mean an individual thought has content that implies a claim on something.

[Paulo]

Thanks for your response EricW, myself and the other guides have no further questions for you. Please check your private messages (here on the forum) for more details.

Paulo.