Looking for a guide

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Tessa
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Tessa » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:55 pm

Hi Sarah,
Anything else you want to discuss? Anything else that needs looking at? Anymore uncertainty? Anymore questions? Anymore seeking? Anymore waiting for …..?
Nothing comes up, Sarah. I've looked at each one of the above questions and cannot find anything.

Have a good evening!
Love from Tove

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Sarah7
Posts: 3474
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:17 pm
Location: England

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:58 pm

Hi Tove
I would like to invite you to LU Facebook groups, but before that we usually ask some "final questions". Would you like to answer them? If there are any sticky points I can see and we can work through, if none, you are welcome to join the groups for continuing support and friendship.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.
Much Love Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Tessa
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Tessa » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:16 pm

Hi Sarah!

I needed to take some time with these questions :)
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is no separate entity self/me or I “operating” this organism or operating in this organism. There has only ever been an assumption of a separate self entity constructed by “I” thoughts and conditioned thoughts presuming an “I”.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
What is seen is the deep conditioning that there is an “I” that lives in this particular body , “owns” thoughts, feelings and to some extent controls the body and the body’s movement. This “I” assumes responsibility for what goes on (thoughts, feelings, physical action). The sense of this “I” is maintained through “I” thoughts and thoughts that take the “I’s” existence for a given and also claim ownership of the sense perceptions of the body (“I” see, hear, smell, touch) . The “I” is a construct that is habitual and resurrected again and again. It is not constant, however, and there are many periods during a day when there are just activities performed, thinking happening, talking happening, with no “I” or even much of a sense of “I”.

When the illusory “I” gathers momentum, it feels like a contraction. I know that is a word often used, but it is a good description. It is very noticable in the morning after a night’s sleep. It usually sets in within a minute of waking up, and can be observed and looked at…. “Here “I” go again” :). During these past weeks there has also been a lot of “I” thoughts about “I” thoughts (“I” wanting to stop “I”, “I” being fed up with “I”). What has seemed to happen a lot recently is that the illusory “I” is seen, and then more subtle “I” thoughts claim ownership to this seeing, and on it goes. It is sticky, and like a spider’s web.

There was a very clear seeing a couple of weeks back. It is difficult to put into words, but the essence was “nobody here and nowhere to go”.
There was a strong sense of relief and laughter. After a couple of days resting in this clear seeing, there seems to have been an increase in thoughts that trigger the illusory “I”. “Every trick in the book” seems a good description (and a story :) ). There’s been looking and seeing, and “I” attachment. Layers upon layers. Then a seeing of all this as “blah, blah, blah and blah” and just something happening in a space that
embraced it. It (the thoughts) are still happening, but less, and less sticky.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels spacious and lighter, somehow. There is a sense of relaxation and ease. The “process” here seems to have triggered a lot of beliefs and filters of the illusory “I”, and also beliefs / expectations about what it is to see “no self” and how it would be experienced. It’s like something had to run its course until it was seen for what it was; stories, labels, “I” identification. It is also as if something has been “stripped off” (filters?) which makes experience more direct. This morning, I sat for a little while in my garden in the sun before going to work, and noticed that there was an aliveness to everything. The birdsong is one thing, but it also applied to the wood planks of the terrace, an old shoe…… Sticky thoughts are still playing “old favourites”, but not much. And it’s mostly just looked at with little or no attaching of any “I”. I’ve been laughing a lot today. My boss passed me in the corridor and asked “What’s the joke?” :) .
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The last bit was the sense of spaciousness embracing all the “blah, blah, blahs ..” . It was on April Fool’s day :) . It felt like a great relief, a burden lifted. Your metaphor about reflections in a mirror, Sarah, is a good way to put it. Lots of thoughts and activity, but no stickiness. Just what is happening.
5)can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience
Life lives itself. This body moves and acts, thoughts are thought, bodily sensations appear without any controller or “I”. Decisions are made. The “I” ownership of them is “after the fact”. The same with intentions. So free will, choice and control for an “I” is illusory.

During this period of looking it has become very obvious that there is no control and no “I” thinking thoughts. Just thoughts appearing, and thoughts about thoughts about thoughts. Examples can be habitual thoughts that arise in certain situations, like Pavlov’s dogs salivating. There is no intention or free will behind them, just a conditioned response to a stimulus. Just now, while writing, my hand reached out and grabbed the glass of water and drank. No intention, no free will involved. Another example is when I’m doing chores around the house, and suddenly find myself having switched to a different task. There is certainly no free will or conscious decision involved. It is also often very clear in conversations how words and sentences just flow. No planning, no intention.
6) Anything to add?

Thank you so much , Sarah! For your guidance, your patience and your humor. I am so grateful.

Love from Tove

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Sarah7
Posts: 3474
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:17 pm
Location: England

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:39 pm

Thanks Tove. Will get back to you in a little while - if you can keep checking in that would be great. I will pm you at some point too :) Much Love Sarah xxxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Sarah7
Posts: 3474
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:17 pm
Location: England

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:00 pm

OK - super speedy! Have pm'd you! S xx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.


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