I would like a guide please.

[Canfora]

Dear Dianne, did i throw too much pointers at you? Are thoughts making you want to give up? What's happening?

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

Nothing you did. Have had a very busy week and a bit. Youngest daughters birthday and trying to give her lots of driving practice before she goes for her license. Also shopping with my eldest daughter for her wedding dress. I kept thinking I would get to the computer at night and sit and answer your questions but it didn't happen as planned. Will get back to you as soon as I can. I don't intend to give up on this until I'm done but will make sure I let you know what's happening in future. I didn't realize so much time had passed.

Thanks
Dianne

[dian]

Are you saying that seeing no self is staying always present with the awareness of thoughts and sensations?
A kind of permanent awareness of awareness? Of permanent attention?
If you look, what do you see? Can attention, awareness be controlled?

Not always present but easier to see through the story when it's happening. I can place attention on my breath but that lasts for a short time and thoughts come up.

Isn't this attention/awereness always here, even when there aren't thoughts arising about it?
Seeing the illusion in some moments, seeing the thoughts/story in others and also seeing This, the experiencing of hands in the keybord, the hearing of sounds, the movements of body?

Yes this attention is always here.

Reading your words it seems that you are trying to controle this attention/awereness to be in a permanent state of no-self. How is this going? How can a self controle attention/awereness and be a no-self?

That's not going so well. : ( No control here. I have no idea really doesn't make any sense does it.

Are you also expecting to be in a permanent state of detachment of thoughts/stories?
If you look, can you find attachment or detachment?
Can you see what these concepts point to in life or just thoughts saying that these states are real?

Maybe not permanent, I think life would be happening and I would be more accepting not trying to change or envision the future, recreate past. More present on a more permanent basis.

What is here that can be in a state of attachement or detachment?
In thoughts you can find the concepts of attachement, detachment and a Dianne that's supposed to get this.
But are thoughts pointing to anything that can be found in reality?

If I look there are outcomes I'm attached to. If I look for attachment or detatchment I cant find them.

Can you please look and give me examples of things that aren't just happening? Curious to see what you will find :)

I looked and didn't find anything that wasn't just happening regardless of what I thought about it.

Sandra I will get back to this later today or tomorrow.

thankyou
Dianne

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

If you look directly to this frustration - that i suppose is a mix of thoughts and sensations - what is its origin?
Can you see a self here that's feeling frustrated?
Or just a mix of thoughts and sensations arising?
Be curious, Dianne, look!
What is here that is not getting this? Something that can be seen, experienced?

The origin of this frustration is the noticing of thoughts about how frustrated I am for not getting this. A thought comes up 'this is so frustrating. What is wrong with me? Why can't I get this.' So many people get it and it seems so simple why can't I.The fingers typing, the thoughts coming up, words being thought and written or maybe just written without time for thoughts first. Not so much a self as a tightening of stomach muscles and thoughts of frustration. Not something that can be seen so just thoughts that I can't get this.

That's a nice thought. And are you trying to believe these kinds of thoughts? Why if they aren't even your thoughts?
Are some thoughts better, more enlightened than others? What decides that? Another thought?
What's behind ANY thought?
A self?
Look!

Yes I am trying to believe these kinds of thoughts
No idea.
Yes another thought seems to decide the better thoughts
I can't see anything behind any thought. I can't even see where they come from they just seem to be almost constantly there from nowhere

How would seeing the illusion unstuck you from the story of Dianne's life? Is that what you want?
What's wrong with life, a family, likes and dislikes?
Does the existence of "My house, my husband, my children, my dog, my car, my garden, my laughter, my frustration" prove that a self exists? How?

No Dianne's life and family are fine as they are but seeing the illusion I guess would be just the noticing of the flow of life. More like each moment is experienced as is not so much belief in the thoughts that come up.

Husband, children, dog, car, garden, laughter, frustration all exist but the my in front of them is because they feel like mine. Do they prove a self exists - no.

Are you expecting what kind of changes Dianne?
Looking at your words what i see described is aliveness, Life flowing as a "you".
And that when looking at life happens a "you" cannot be found in that aliveness.
It's as simple as that.

Only in this moment - typing, feeling of air on legs, sound of noise of fan, tingling in feet, sight of computer screen. That's what's happening at this moment and all that has to be happening until the next moment.

bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne,

Nothing you did. Have had a very busy week and a bit. Youngest daughters birthday and trying to give her lots of driving practice before she goes for her license. Also shopping with my eldest daughter for her wedding dress.

That sounds busy and wonderful, so many things going on!

I kept thinking I would get to the computer at night and sit and answer your questions but it didn't happen as planned.

Hmm... does this mean that life happens in a diferente way than what's been thought?
What about the controller? Can't the self that has the ability to control make anything about this?
Does this also mean that the controller can't make you do what the thinker says you should do?
How does the you - not the "controller" you or the "thinker" you, just the "now" you - feels about this?
(i hope this makes you laugh but the idea - as you already know - is to look for the concrete reality of all these "you")

Will get back to you as soon as I can. I don't intend to give up on this until I'm done but will make sure I let you know what's happening in future. I didn't realize so much time had passed.

That's Ok. Good to know. No you or me doing this, anyway. Just happening :)

Not always present but easier to see through the story when it's happening. I can place attention on my breath but that lasts for a short time and thoughts come up.

If a self was really here, shouldn't this self be able to keep the attention were it wanted?
What's here that can be more or less present? Can you see this entity or only thoughts about it?

The same way, what is here "seeing through the story"?
Can you please give me one or two examples of how this happens? How is the "you" seeing the story of "you"?

Maybe not permanent, I think life would be happening and I would be more accepting not trying to change or envision the future, recreate past. More present on a more permanent basis.

These are thoughts/expectations about a future self. Does a future self exist? How can a non existing present self change a non existing future self?

[Canfora]

The origin of this frustration is the noticing of thoughts about how frustrated I am for not getting this. A thought comes up 'this is so frustrating. What is wrong with me? Why can't I get this.' So many people get it and it seems so simple why can't I.The fingers typing, the thoughts coming up, words being thought and written or maybe just written without time for thoughts first. Not so much a self as a tightening of stomach muscles and thoughts of frustration. Not something that can be seen so just thoughts that I can't get this.

You don't seem to be sure if a self is here or not beyond frustration. Why?
Can you see a self making frustration? Feeling frustration?
Any real frustrated you here to be found?
Why the doubt?

Yes I am trying to believe these kinds of thoughts

Why the need to believe? Don't you trust what you see?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

That sounds busy and wonderful, so many things going on!

Yes busy and wonderful describes it well.

Hmm... does this mean that life happens in a diferente way than what's been thought?

I think life has its own schedule and doesn't let me in on it.

What about the controller? Can't the self that has the ability to control make anything about this?

The controller seems to be sleeping. Doesn't do a lot at all I don't think the title suits her.

Does this also mean that the controller can't make you do what the thinker says you should do?

Both thinker and controller don't listen to me or each other.

How does the you - not the "controller" you or the "thinker" you, just the "now" you - feels about this?

The now me when rational is just happy to be going along moment by moment.

(i hope this makes you laugh but the idea - as you already know - is to look for the concrete reality of all these "you")

Yes it did make me laugh. I like your sense of humour, I quite often read your posts with a smile on my face.

If a self was really here, shouldn't this self be able to keep the attention were it wanted?
What's here that can be more or less present? Can you see this entity or only thoughts about it

?

There are only thoughts about it.

The same way, what is here "seeing through the story"?
Can you please give me one or two examples of how this happens? How is the "you" seeing the story of "you"?

Dianne is sitting here wondering how much it will cost to fix the cars airconditioner. Ringing to book the car in happens and on the day the driving of the car to the service centre will happen (although I cant predict that) and it will cost what it will cost and no amount of thinking about it will change that. The seeing through the story is just thoughts.

These are thoughts/expectations about a future self. Does a future self exist?

No a future self does not exist.

How can a non existing present self change a non existing future self?

Please picture me shaking my head and throwing my hands up in the air for the answer to this question.

You don't seem to be sure if a self is here or not beyond frustration. Why?

It does seem strange that a self is noticed when frustration is noticed. So if the self is frustration the self would also be happiness. Or frustration and happiness happen.

Can you see a self making frustration? Feeling frustration?

The feeling of frustration doesn't seem to need a self as long as thoughts of frustration and sensations are there.

Any real frustrated you here to be found?

No frustrated me comes and goes along with all other me's so nothing concrete there.

Why the need to believe? Don't you trust what you see?

What I see is all there can be.

bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne and thank you for answering my questions. I loved, loved this:

Please picture me shaking my head and throwing my hands up in the air for the answer to this question.

So funny :)

What I see is all there can be.

What do you see, Dianne?
A self, various self's, the absence of the self?
What are your thoughts about what is the self now?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

What do you see, Dianne?
A self, various self's, the absence of the self?
What are your thoughts about what is the self now?

I see hands typing without me having to think through each movement. I see scene from window all noticed and labels come in afterwards to say palm, cloud, sky. I hear fan, feel one leg crossed over the other but to tell the truth its more a sensation of pressure than a feeling of two legs meeting. I see arm reach for cup without any direction from a self and feeling of hotness but I cant say I see a mouth that it goes in just a remembrance of that's where the mouth is. The body moves, thoughts arise and knowing nothing is being done by a self but a being there is so natural and hard to dismiss. My thoughts about what is the self now are - breathing happens, typing happens, breeze on face sensation happens, there is no self needed but hasn't disappeared.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Dear Dianne, i love the way you write about what is seen. You clearly know how to look at reality. I read the beautiful words on your post and i think "she saw it!" (as usual) and then i see this:

no self needed but hasn't disappeared.

So:

Please picture me shaking my head and throwing my hands up in the air

because that's exactly what i did!

Look at reality. Can you see a self here?
Look at thoughts. Can you see a self in them?
Where is the self that hasn't disappeared?
Look! Don't think! Where is this self?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

I will ponder your questions and get back to you. I look and understand they should be straight forward answers from just looking but want to put some time into them. Want to spend today with them.

Dianne

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

Please picture me shaking my head and throwing my hands up in the air

I know exactly what you mean, I'm doing that a lot.Look at reality. Can you see a self here?

Look at reality. Can you see a self here?

I can't see a physical self - just hands typing, glasses, arms poking out in front. Is the self invisible and internal? Seems crazy and what would be the purpose of this invisible self to sit inside a physical self and move the hands to type, look through the glasses? That doesn't make any sense even to me but still a persistent self. Trying to describe why I still can't get this. I know thoughts aren't coming from a me. Actions happen way too fast for me to think of them first. The beauty of a sunny day is just noticed, head just moves around room taking in everything faster than I can think of each item.

Look at thoughts. Can you see a self in them?

Thoughts are so elusive the more I try to see them and catch them the harder they are to pinpoint. It's like they stay just out of reach, I don't even know how they are observed, not seen, not heard, a fleeting illusion.


Where is the self that hasn't disappeared?

The self that hasn't disappeared is nowhere when I try to look and yet there is a sense of Meness, I don't know where. The flavour of me that has always been here throughout. Even with changing age and changing opinions there is a feeling of me that is there always.

Look! Don't think! Where is this self?

Look don't think, but what is used to look not eyes how am I looking bringing attention to different parts of the body like a game of hide and seek and coming up with nothing substantial just a fleeting Meness I don't know where.

Sorry in advance as I feel once again you will be shaking your head and throwing your hands up in the air.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne!

The self that hasn't disappeared is nowhere when I try to look and yet there is a sense of Meness, I don't know where. The flavour of me that has always been here throughout. Even with changing age and changing opinions there is a feeling of me that is there always.

Yes, that sense of Meness is part of what is experienced. I also feel it.

Are you always aware of this sense of Meness?
Or does this sense comes and goes in awareness, like sensations, thoughts, feelings?

If you look directely to this sense of Meness, when it appears, can you see a you behind it? What can you see there?

Sorry in advance as I feel once again you will be shaking your head and throwing your hands up in the air.

Sorry for having said that, Dianne! It's wasn't personal, just a silly reaction coming from conditioning and it wasn't directed at you. I was feeling frustrated with my guiding abilities. It's gone now. Guides also react to thought content...

One more question:

When you look, when you aren't engaged in thoughts, is anything making you feel separated from life?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

Are you always aware of this sense of Meness?
Or does this sense comes and goes in awareness, like sensations, thoughts, feelings?

I don't feel it comes and goes in awareness but I'm not consciously aware of it all the time. It doesn't seem as fleeting as thoughts although just as hard to look at but just where sensations, thoughts, feelings change this Meness doesn't seem to.

If you look directely to this sense of Meness, when it appears, can you see a you behind it? What can you see there?

It's very had to look at. I can't even see a Meness let alone a me behind it. It's not a visual thing just its not contained by changing feelings or sensations but just before decisions and thoughts and feelings there is somewhere I am comfortable just Me no bad thing can alter it or good thing happening can send it to the highest feeling of elation it's just Me.

Please picture me shaking my head and throwing my hands up in the air
Sorry for having said that, Dianne! It's wasn't personal, just a silly reaction coming from conditioning and it wasn't directed at you. I was feeling frustrated with my guiding abilities. It's gone now. Guides also react to thought content

Sandra you never have to say sorry to me. When you sent the quote back to me I was picturing a little cartoon character tearing her hair out. I didn't take it personal it made me smile. Nothing wrong with your guiding abilities so much is looked at differently now instead of just going through life there's stopping to see what's happening at the moment and I wouldn't do that without you. Nothing is taken for granted now sensations and thoughts seem to play a big part in life and I find myself questioning the simplest things being done. I never just think my feet are crossed at the ankles I notice the sensation and question what makes this crossed ankles and find myself doing this throughout the day with eating, writing, walking whenever I think of it. Nothing is taken for granted now air on face from fan is questioned and turns out to be sensation and noise.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne,

I don't feel it comes and goes in awareness but I'm not consciously aware of it all the time.

Can you please explain this other way? It seems like a contradiction because if you're not always aware of it, then it comes and goes and its an experience, not a self.

What's the difference between consciousness and awareness?
Can there be consciousness without awareness or awareness without consciousness?
Can you experience being unconsciously aware?
Are you this consciousness/awareness?

It's very had to look at. I can't even see a Meness let alone a me behind it. It's not a visual thing just its not contained by changing feelings or sensations but just before decisions and thoughts and feelings there is somewhere I am comfortable just Me no bad thing can alter it or good thing happening can send it to the highest feeling of elation it's just Me.

So a me can't be seen only the Me.
What is this Me? A separated, real, perceived self?
When you look, when you aren't engaged in thoughts, is this Me separated from life?

so much is looked at differently now instead of just going through life there's stopping to see what's happening at the moment and I wouldn't do that without you. Nothing is taken for granted now sensations and thoughts seem to play a big part in life and I find myself questioning the simplest things being done. I never just think my feet are crossed at the ankles I notice the sensation and question what makes this crossed ankles and find myself doing this throughout the day with eating, writing, walking whenever I think of it. Nothing is taken for granted now air on face from fan is questioned and turns out to be sensation and noise.

Where is this questioning/looking coming from?
Are you doing it? Can you control it?

In your introduction you said:

I have read so many books on enlightenment and gained so much information from John Sherman's website and Fred Davis's website. It all seems understood but out of my reach. I am not a fast learner but a very willing one although I admit to feeling a sense of fear that I may never get this.

Are you still searching, Dianne? Still looking for "outside" information?
Do you still think you will never get this or that this is something that can be learned?

Sending love, Sandra