I would like a guide please.

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

I just wanted to wish you a very happy Christmas. I will get back to you after Christmas.


Dianne

[Canfora]

Thank you, Dianne! I also wish you and your family a wonderful, happy Christmas.

Love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,
[quoteLet's say that dianne exists and she's reading these words. Not a past dianne or a future dianne.
A now dianne.

Look and tell me what proves her existence in experience. Can this now dianne be experienced with the senses?
Can she be seen?
Can she be heard?
Can she be felt?
Can she be smelled?
Can she be pointed at?][/quote]

Dianne is hands, arms, legs, feet, torso, chest rising and falling, tip of nose, wisps of hair. When I look I see these things. When I look for a Dianne reading these words I cannot see eyes reading, mind interpreting.

I cannot hear Dianne.
I can touch body parts of Dianne even parts that cannot be seen when I look like nose, lips, cheeks, neck.
I can't smell Dianne.
I can point at physical parts of Dianne.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne,

If i understand you well you're saying that Dianne exists because body can be seen and pointed at.

You can see and point to the body and you can also see and point to the computer... Without thoughts - labels, interpretation, "memory" - what makes the body more Dianne than the computer?

I borrowed this exercise from another guide, tell me what you find doing it:

Lets look at body:

POINTING

To see Who you really are, carry out the following experiment.

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.

For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…

of my foot...

...of my knee

of my chest...

In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.

Now point where others see your face.

What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

Looking in to the place where others see my face, I find no colour or shape here. I find boundless capacity or awareness this side of my pointing finger. This capacity is empty, clear, transparent. It is self-evidently awake, aware.

my finger, my view of the scene beyond, sounds, feelings…

What do you find? Are you also looking out of this wide-open, crystal clear, awareness?


Love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra

You can see and point to the body and you can also see and point to the computer... Without thoughts - labels, interpretation, "memory" - what makes the body more Dianne than the computer?

Without thoughts, labels and memory's there is no body that is more Dianne than the computer.

Now point where others see your face.

What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

I see nothing when looking back toward where others see my face.

I'm not sure I see anything that is self evidently awake and aware although how else could the finger and the view out the window in front of me be seen. Sounds are also evident.

Sandra I am enjoying spending time with my son before he flys home on Saturday so my replies are only every few days at the moment. I hope you have a Happy New Year.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne!

Without thoughts, labels and memory's there is no body that is more Dianne than the computer.

Just to be clear, are you saying that when you look you can't find a you that owns the body or is inside the body? Are you 100% sure you can't find a you that is/controls the body?

I see nothing when looking back toward where others see my face.

No you, Dianne here to be find?

I'm not sure I see anything that is self evidently awake and aware although how else could the finger and the view out the window in front of me be seen. Sounds are also evident.

Could you say that awakeness and awareness are experienced by no-one?
Can you turn this awakeness/awareness on and off?
It's a you in control of awakeness/awareness?
And if you drop the labels awakeness and awareness what's here to be experienced?

Sandra I am enjoying spending time with my son before he flys home on Saturday so my replies are only every few days at the moment. I hope you have a Happy New Year.

Thank you, Dianne. Have a nice time with your son and a Happy New Year to you too.

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Just to be clear, are you saying that when you look you can't find a you that owns the body or is inside the body? Are you 100% sure you can't find a you that is/controls the body?

Take away thoughts, memories and labels what is left? No thoughts - so no mind chatter. No memories - so no earlier years of Dianne. No labels - so nothing has names. Left with just sensations but still claiming them as my own. No not 100% still remains a claiming of I don't know what. Thoughts, memories and learned labels are there they don't go away and it's hard to know what it would be like without them.

No you, Dianne here to be find?

Still feels like a me inside the body. I can picture my face that others see but impossible for me to see that. I can see nothing. Turning my gaze 180o there's nothing to see but sensations of hair blowing against face is there. No sight of a Dianne but a feeling of Dianne.

Could you say that awakeness and awareness are experienced by no-one?

I seem to think awareness is Dianne.

Can you turn this awakeness/awareness on and off?

No, I cant seem to control awareness. Awareness seems to go on happening and thoughts and labels come in. If I shut my eyes and block my ears I am no longer aware of the palm trees or the sounds of the fan but I then become aware of hands on ears and sound of heartbeat so I can't turn it on or off.

It's a you in control of awakeness/awareness?

That's tough because if I can't turn it on and off how can I be in charge of it yet still Dianne feels she's awake and aware. I'm directing attention toward where others see my face and can't decide whether awareness is doing the directing of attention or being the nothing that is looked at. Even as I do it other thoughts come in without any conscious effort and I am distracted.

And if you drop the labels awakeness and awareness what's here to be experienced?

If I drop the label awareness, the fan is still being heard, the decorations are being seen. Does that mean awareness is just another label or am I just changing awareness of, to seeing and hearing?

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Left with just sensations but still claiming them as my own.

What is this you that is claiming sensations as belonging to it? Can you find it here?

Thoughts, memories and learned labels are there they don't go away and it's hard to know what it would be like without them.

Why would they go away? Are you expecting that to happen?
What would make them go away if there is no you running the show of Dianne's life?

Still feels like a me inside the body.

When does this feeling appear? When there's a focus of attention in "inside the body"?
What exactly is this feeling of a me inside the body made of? A real me?

No sight of a Dianne but a feeling of Dianne.

Is Dianne made of a feeling? What makes this Dianne real?

I seem to think awareness is Dianne.

Try to find this you that's made of awareness. Look for it. Where is this you?

What's the difference between the labels "feeling" and "awareness"? If you look, are these two words pointers to the same kind of experience?

Even as I do it other thoughts come in without any conscious effort and I am distracted.

If a you is real, shouldn't this you be able to keep the attention where it want it to be?
Does a you own the distraction or is the distraction just happening without a you there to control it?
Could it be that distraction is happening like the thoughts, like the looking, like the breathing, like the moving - without effort? Without a doer?

If I drop the label awareness, the fan is still being heard, the decorations are being seen. Does that mean awareness is just another label or am I just changing awareness of, to seeing and hearing?

At this moment... can you see the separation between awareness and seeing and hearing?

Looking at experience without labeling it, does any separation exist to be found? What's real? Awareness + seeing + hearing or awarenessseeinghearing? Can you see a reality made of the sum of separated little experiences or see an ever present all-ness?

If you look and can't see the separation that thoughts imply that exist, how can a self be here in reality? A self existing apart from the rest? Is this self being experienced?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

What is this you that is claiming sensations as belonging to it? Can you find it here?

Sensations like feel of pen in fingers, feel of feet on floor, feel of cold air on the skin of legs. The body is directly involved with sensations. All is felt or heard or seen from where the body is.

Why would they go away? Are you expecting that to happen?
What would make them go away if there is no you running the show of Dianne's life?

No I don't expect thoughts, memories and learned labels to go away.

When does this feeling appear? When there's a focus of attention in "inside the body"?
What exactly is this feeling of a me inside the body made of? A real me?

Its more like an ownership of the body.

Is Dianne made of a feeling? What makes this Dianne real?

Thoughts make this Dianne seem real.

Just getting back into this Sandra and I know I have a lot more questions from your last post to answer but will answer them later today. There seem to be so many contradictions in my previous answers that I need time to ponder them.

Bye for now
Dianne

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

Is Dianne made of a feeling? What makes this Dianne real?

The feeling of Dianne is just another thought.

Try to find this you that's made of awareness. Look for it. Where is this you?

Dianne's aware of the noise of the fan.
The noise of the fan is happening.
Hearing is happening.
All that's happening is hearing.
Awareness is not needed just hearing happening.

What's the difference between the labels "feeling" and "awareness"? If you look, are these two words pointers to the same kind of experience?

There is no difference between feeling and awareness. Everything is just happening.

If a you is real, shouldn't this you be able to keep the attention where it want it to be?
Does a you own the distraction or is the distraction just happening without a you there to control it?
Could it be that distraction is happening like the thoughts, like the looking, like the breathing, like the moving - without effort? Without a doer?

Thoughts come and go with no me directing them. The distraction is just happening.

At this moment... can you see the separation between awareness and seeing and hearing?

At this moment it's just seeing and hearing.

Looking at experience without labeling it, does any separation exist to be found?

No separation when looking at experience without labels. Noise of fan moving, palm trees seen, hand on knee felt, air conditioner heard, feeling foot on carpet. Just hearing, seeing, feeling.

What's real? Awareness + seeing + hearing or awarenessseeinghearing? Can you see a reality made of the sum of separated little experiences or see an ever present all-ness?

Awarenessseeinghearing all at once. Without labels an ever present allness.

If you look and can't see the separation that thoughts imply that exist, how can a self be here in reality? A self existing apart from the rest? Is this self being experienced?

No this self is not being experienced.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne!

Is no self being seen? What are you expecting to happen?

In life, are you seeing the diference between what is real and what is imaginary?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

Is no self being seen? What are you expecting to happen?

Sorry Sandra nothing to report. When I'm not sitting answering your questions no self is not being seen.
Just a seeing of truth.

In life, are you seeing the diference between what is real and what is imaginary?

Life is still as it is. Attachment to I continues in everyday life.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne!

Sorry Sandra nothing to report.

Don't think so, some interesting things to be looked here :)

When I'm not sitting answering your questions no self is not being seen.

Can you please tell me how no self looks like?
How will you know that you are seeing no self?

Just a seeing of truth.

Can you please talk a little more about this? When you see truth, what do you see exactly?

Life is still as it is. Attachment to I continues in everyday life.

Can you give me some examples of attachment to an I, please?

Sending love and looking forward to your answers!

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

Can you please tell me how no self looks like?

When I close my eyes and sensations and thoughts are all there is of Dianne that to me is what seeing no self looks like. Attachment to those thoughts and the stories they tell comes right back in in daily life when attention is not on answering your questions.

How will you know that you are seeing no self?

When more of daily life is noticed to be happening automatically. It's very tricky because there is nothing to be seen but it's different when I sit with your questions and go looking for answers.

Can you please talk a little more about this? When you see truth, what do you see exactly?

Did I write that? I have no idea where that came from. Seeing of truth is to me seeing through the illusion of self and I'm not there yet. Frustration with myself comes up a lot these days because I don't seem to be getting this. Then I think that's just a thought like every other thought that comes up and it's not mine. You said once that my answers are [so "textbook perfect" that I feel the need to ask if they are coming from thinking, from an intelectual understand of how the "right" answers should be or if you are looking at reality to see what's true?] At the time I didn't think they were coming from anything but me but I've read so many books in the past that I wonder if the answers are just there and easy to reach for.

Can you give me some examples of attachment to an I, please?

My house, my husband, my children, my dog, my car, my garden, my laughter, my frustration all are attachments that are hard to get unstuck from. When I sit and type answers to your questions, I am home on my own and closing my eyes I can see thoughts (not literally) just arise but when it comes to everyday life talking, hugging, patting dog doesn't seem to be just happening it seems to be happening to a me. Then I search everywhere inside the body for the me and can't pinpoint it so confusion is felt.

Thankyou for being so patient,
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for keeping with this.

When I close my eyes and sensations and thoughts are all there is of Dianne that to me is what seeing no self looks like. Attachment to those thoughts and the stories they tell comes right back in in daily life when attention is not on answering your questions.

Are you saying that seeing no self is staying always present with the awareness of thoughts and sensations?
A kind of permanent awareness of awareness? Of permanent attention?
If you look, what do you see? Can attention, awareness be controlled?

Isn't this attention/awereness always here, even when there aren't thoughts arising about it?
Seeing the illusion in some moments, seeing the thoughts/story in others and also seeing This, the experiencing of hands in the keybord, the hearing of sounds, the movements of body?

Reading your words it seems that you are trying to controle this attention/awereness to be in a permanent state of no-self. How is this going? How can a self controle attention/awereness and be a no-self?

Are you also expecting to be in a permanent state of detachment of thoughts/stories?
If you look, can you find attachment or detachment?
Can you see what these concepts point to in life or just thoughts saying that these states are real?

What is here that can be in a state of attachement or detachment?
In thoughts you can find the concepts of attachement, detachment and a Dianne that's supposed to get this.
But are thoughts pointing to anything that can be found in reality?

When more of daily life is noticed to be happening automatically. It's very tricky because there is nothing to be seen but it's different when I sit with your questions and go looking for answers.

Can you please look and give me examples of things that aren't just happening? Curious to see what you will find :)

Frustration with myself comes up a lot these days because I don't seem to be getting this.

If you look directly to this frustration - that i suppose is a mix of thoughts and sensations - what is its origin?
Can you see a self here that's feeling frustrated?
Or just a mix of thoughts and sensations arising?
Be curious, Dianne, look!
What is here that is not getting this? Something that can be seen, experienced?

Then I think that's just a thought like every other thought that comes up and it's not mine.

That's a nice thought. And are you trying to believe these kinds of thoughts? Why if they aren't even your thoughts?
Are some thoughts better, more enlightened than others? What decides that? Another thought?
What's behind ANY thought?
A self?
Look!

My house, my husband, my children, my dog, my car, my garden, my laughter, my frustration all are attachments that are hard to get unstuck from.

How would seeing the illusion unstuck you from the story of Dianne's life? Is that what you want?
What's wrong with life, a family, likes and dislikes?
Does the existence of "My house, my husband, my children, my dog, my car, my garden, my laughter, my frustration" prove that a self exists? How?

When I sit and type answers to your questions, I am home on my own and closing my eyes I can see thoughts (not literally) just arise but when it comes to everyday life talking, hugging, patting dog doesn't seem to be just happening it seems to be happening to a me. Then I search everywhere inside the body for the me and can't pinpoint it so confusion is felt.

Are you expecting what kind of changes Dianne?
Looking at your words what i see described is aliveness, Life flowing as a "you".
And that when looking at life happens a "you" cannot be found in that aliveness.
It's as simple as that.

Sending love, Sandra